Please don't dredge up old threads that are 4 months old. By all means read and absorb the past information and if it doesn't answer your problem/question then start a new thread.
Whilst there are variations in what different measuring systems show for CPU temperature, and unless you are severely overclocking and have adjusted your Vcore voltage to an insanely high value, it is quite unlikely that you are getting anywhere near 76C unless you have an incorrectly fitted heatsink. Here are some things you could consider checking.
1. What is the room temperature where your computer is?
2. Does taking the side cover off and allowing free air flow make any difference?
3. Can you comfortably touch the side of your heat sink with the temp at 76C?
4. Is the cpu fan delivering a normal airflow?
5. Are the fins of the heatsink clogged with dust?
6. Have you really checked closely that the heatsink is correctly clamped to the cpu die?
I run a large number of AMD CPUs, Durons, Athlons, Bartons, Semprons, all significantly overclocked, all with sensibly elevated Vcore and all with standard AMD supplied heatsinks. The main concession I have made is to replace the thin AMD fan with a 25mm thick Sunon ball bearing fan which runs around 4800rpm. This improves the airflow without making the noise level unacceptable and is a much cheaper and just about equally effective solution as buying an expensive extra heatsink. I also make sure that case cooling keeps the internal ambient temperature as close to the external ambient as possible. Hot internal air will not cool, no matter how hard you blow it or how fancy a heatsink you blow it across.
I don't really have heat problems, even when the external ambient gets up to 30C when the aircon is off at weekends. The cpu temps are in the low to mid 50s and will get up to about 60C if the room temp gets to 27-30C.
The thing I most like to see when I fire up a new cruncher is a heatsink that almost feels too hot to touch when the MBM temperature says 55C. The hot touch tells me that the thermal contact between heatsink and CPU die is optimal and there is good thermal transfer occurring. How else could the heatsink feel hot?
That's why I asked if you have tried touching the heatsink. If your thermal monitoring system says 76C and the heatsink is barely warm, then you have a thermal transfer problem most likely caused by an incorrectly fitted heatsink. I would almost be willing to bet that this is your problem, particularly if you are not overclocking at all. It is quite an easy task to remove and replace the heatsink if you just use some care and commonsense. Are you sure the heatsink is mounted the correct way? It is possible to mount them 180deg from the correct way in which case part of the underside of the heatsink may be contacting the plastic cpu socket. You will be able to tell by the position and nature of the impression in the thermal pad made by the cpu die when you remove the heatsink. The underside of the heatsink usually has a recessed portion that fits over the plastic of the socket when correctly placed.
First, I apologize about the dredging up of an old thread. Most other boards I've been to will pounce on you for starting a new thread if the subject already exists somewhere no matter how old, so I thought I'd play it safe. I will make note of the policy here.
Now, on to the problem. I removed the heat sink and there was a perfect impression of the die in the thermal paste, but the paste was drying out and crumbly. I cleaned everything off and used some Arctic Silver 5. It is now running about 5C cooler, but according to the Arctic Silver website it should drop about 3 to 5C more after the "break-in" is through.
I think you were spot on about the case. I have 2 in and 2 out fans, but the design of the case, along with the AGP video cards placement, kind of isolates the CPU. My power supply is also an older one that doesn't have an intake on the bottom to help draw air over the CPU. If I can keep the temperature in the 60's I will leave all as is until I buy a new motherboard, probably Athlon 64. I will then also buy a new case and power supply, as this case has been through 3 incarnations already.
Thank you for your help.
dagwolf
Dagwolf, TAC or thermally advantaged chassis designed today have a side vent with a duct to ensure the outside air gets directly to the CPU. Many PC modders will also cut a vent in the top of the case and add a fan there to expel more hot air. With the side vents, CPU fans get air that is only 2 degrees warmer than ambient vs 15 degrees or more inside the chassis. Whether you use Intel or AMD, there are chassis available with an intake directly over the CPU. You can add a fan but most CPU fans will pull air in unassisted. (Some chassis include a duct with the side vent that really helps deliver cool air)
When you are adding your thermal interface material (grease, G751, AS5, whatever) keep it as thin as possible. if it is too thick it increases the thermal resistance and will act as an insulator. Gary's method of checking the surface temp of the heatsink to ensure good thermal transfer from the CPU is a good tip.
Dagwolf, TAC or thermally advantaged chassis designed today have a side vent with a duct to ensure the outside air gets directly to the CPU. Many PC modders will also cut a vent in the top of the case and add a fan there to expel more hot air. With the side vents, CPU fans get air that is only 2 degrees warmer than ambient vs 15 degrees or more inside the chassis. Whether you use Intel or AMD, there are chassis available with an intake directly over the CPU. You can add a fan but most CPU fans will pull air in unassisted. (Some chassis include a duct with the side vent that really helps deliver cool air)
When you are adding your thermal interface material (grease, G751, AS5, whatever) keep it as thin as possible. if it is too thick it increases the thermal resistance and will act as an insulator. Gary's method of checking the surface temp of the heatsink to ensure good thermal transfer from the CPU is a good tip.
Well, it's official. I'm a jackass.
My case did have a hole with fan over the CPU. When I bought the case way back when, the common wisdom was to use the fan as exhaust to draw hot air from the CPU. Well after reading your post, I reversed it to blow into the case. Guess what. My CPU temp dropped 14C. Right now it's running SETI, which usually ran at 67C, now it's running at 53C.
Once again, thanks to all of you for your help.
Now what to do with that other heatsink I ordered...Maybe start a farm...
dagwolf
My case did have a hole with fan over the CPU. When I bought the case way back when, the common wisdom was to use the fan as exhaust to draw hot air from the CPU. Well after reading your post, I reversed it to blow into the case. Guess what. My CPU temp dropped 14C. Right now it's running SETI, which usually ran at 67C, now it's running at 53C.
Once again, thanks to all of you for your help.
Now what to do with that other heatsink I ordered...Maybe start a farm...
dagwolf
I'm glad you got your problem sorted. Do I understand you correctly that you had a case fan in the side of your case extracting air from over the top of the cpu fan which was trying to blow air in the opposite direction into the fins of the heatsink, effectively starving the cpu fan of an unhindered supply of cool air? I could well imagine that this would cause huge problems. By reversing the case fan you are now increasing the supply of cool air just where it is most needed. Is this what you did?
One point about AS5. I personally use it myself if I'm removing and replacing heatsinks. However there is a lot of unjustified hype about it. I have tried many experiments with AS5 including lapping the base of the heat sink prior to applying it as an extremely thin layer to a scrupulously clean mirror finish surface. I've then run two essentially identical boxes with all components, BIOS settings, degree of overclock, fan disposition, etc, being identical, apart from one box using the standard TIM and the other using the AS5 treatment. The best I could see was a 1-2C improvement for both AS5 and the lapping. I actually think the lapping did more than the AS5. I followed all the instructions on the AS5 website very carefully and was very careful to have a smooth wafer thin and even coating on a properly cleaned cpu die surface and a layer of AS5 rubbed into the mirror surface of the heatsink using a disposable plastic glove. I also saw no measurable drop in temperature over the so-called "bedding-in" period. Whilst it has the good feature of not drying out, I no longer bother to remove the standard TIM patch from a new heatsink just to put AS5 in its place. To me, the best thing to do is keep up a good supply of cool internal air and to upgrade the airflow of the cpu fan. My best cooling comes from using a 60mm to 90mm adapter and attaching a 90mm case fan to the top of the heat sink. That way I get faster airflow without needing high revs so the noise level is lower.
Now what to do with that other heatsink I ordered...Maybe start a farm...
dagwolf
Well Dagwolf, crunching has been known to be rather addicting. Since it sounds like you have a spare heatsink, it's only proper that you contine to grow that computer dna into a complete system and continue crunching. Congrats on feeding your CPU cool air! It's always a good thing when the forum can assist with an issue. -tahoe
I'm glad you got your problem sorted. Do I understand you correctly that you had a case fan in the side of your case extracting air from over the top of the cpu fan which was trying to blow air in the opposite direction into the fins of the heatsink, effectively starving the cpu fan of an unhindered supply of cool air? I could well imagine that this would cause huge problems. By reversing the case fan you are now increasing the supply of cool air just where it is most needed. Is this what you did?
Yes, that's it exactly. See previous post re: I'm a jackass.
Quote:
One point about AS5. I personally use it myself if I'm removing and replacing heatsinks. However there is a lot of unjustified hype about it. I have tried many experiments with AS5 including lapping the base of the heat sink prior to applying it as an extremely thin layer to a scrupulously clean mirror finish surface. I've then run two essentially identical boxes with all components, BIOS settings, degree of overclock, fan disposition, etc, being identical, apart from one box using the standard TIM and the other using the AS5 treatment. The best I could see was a 1-2C improvement for both AS5 and the lapping. I actually think the lapping did more than the AS5. I followed all the instructions on the AS5 website very carefully and was very careful to have a smooth wafer thin and even coating on a properly cleaned cpu die surface and a layer of AS5 rubbed into the mirror surface of the heatsink using a disposable plastic glove. I also saw no measurable drop in temperature over the so-called "bedding-in" period. Whilst it has the good feature of not drying out, I no longer bother to remove the standard TIM patch from a new heatsink just to put AS5 in its place. To me, the best thing to do is keep up a good supply of cool internal air and to upgrade the airflow of the cpu fan. My best cooling comes from using a 60mm to 90mm adapter and attaching a 90mm case fan to the top of the heat sink. That way I get faster airflow without needing high revs so the noise level is lower.
I'm sure there's some hype, but I was mainly interested in the "not drying out" part. The "heatpad" that came with the AMD heatsink had dried out and was crumbling. I only saw the part about the extra heat passing capacity on the website after I had already bought the tube. It seems to be working fine and the running temps have actually dropped a couple of degrees over the past 48 hours with a few cooling off cycles thrown in per instructions, so I'm satisfied with it.
Thanks once again,
dagwolf
A couple of points for your
)
A couple of points for your consideration.
Please don't dredge up old threads that are 4 months old. By all means read and absorb the past information and if it doesn't answer your problem/question then start a new thread.
Whilst there are variations in what different measuring systems show for CPU temperature, and unless you are severely overclocking and have adjusted your Vcore voltage to an insanely high value, it is quite unlikely that you are getting anywhere near 76C unless you have an incorrectly fitted heatsink. Here are some things you could consider checking.
1. What is the room temperature where your computer is?
2. Does taking the side cover off and allowing free air flow make any difference?
3. Can you comfortably touch the side of your heat sink with the temp at 76C?
4. Is the cpu fan delivering a normal airflow?
5. Are the fins of the heatsink clogged with dust?
6. Have you really checked closely that the heatsink is correctly clamped to the cpu die?
I run a large number of AMD CPUs, Durons, Athlons, Bartons, Semprons, all significantly overclocked, all with sensibly elevated Vcore and all with standard AMD supplied heatsinks. The main concession I have made is to replace the thin AMD fan with a 25mm thick Sunon ball bearing fan which runs around 4800rpm. This improves the airflow without making the noise level unacceptable and is a much cheaper and just about equally effective solution as buying an expensive extra heatsink. I also make sure that case cooling keeps the internal ambient temperature as close to the external ambient as possible. Hot internal air will not cool, no matter how hard you blow it or how fancy a heatsink you blow it across.
I don't really have heat problems, even when the external ambient gets up to 30C when the aircon is off at weekends. The cpu temps are in the low to mid 50s and will get up to about 60C if the room temp gets to 27-30C.
The thing I most like to see when I fire up a new cruncher is a heatsink that almost feels too hot to touch when the MBM temperature says 55C. The hot touch tells me that the thermal contact between heatsink and CPU die is optimal and there is good thermal transfer occurring. How else could the heatsink feel hot?
That's why I asked if you have tried touching the heatsink. If your thermal monitoring system says 76C and the heatsink is barely warm, then you have a thermal transfer problem most likely caused by an incorrectly fitted heatsink. I would almost be willing to bet that this is your problem, particularly if you are not overclocking at all. It is quite an easy task to remove and replace the heatsink if you just use some care and commonsense. Are you sure the heatsink is mounted the correct way? It is possible to mount them 180deg from the correct way in which case part of the underside of the heatsink may be contacting the plastic cpu socket. You will be able to tell by the position and nature of the impression in the thermal pad made by the cpu die when you remove the heatsink. The underside of the heatsink usually has a recessed portion that fits over the plastic of the socket when correctly placed.
I hope some of these suggestions might help.
Cheers,
Gary.
First, I apologize about the
)
First, I apologize about the dredging up of an old thread. Most other boards I've been to will pounce on you for starting a new thread if the subject already exists somewhere no matter how old, so I thought I'd play it safe. I will make note of the policy here.
Now, on to the problem. I removed the heat sink and there was a perfect impression of the die in the thermal paste, but the paste was drying out and crumbly. I cleaned everything off and used some Arctic Silver 5. It is now running about 5C cooler, but according to the Arctic Silver website it should drop about 3 to 5C more after the "break-in" is through.
I think you were spot on about the case. I have 2 in and 2 out fans, but the design of the case, along with the AGP video cards placement, kind of isolates the CPU. My power supply is also an older one that doesn't have an intake on the bottom to help draw air over the CPU. If I can keep the temperature in the 60's I will leave all as is until I buy a new motherboard, probably Athlon 64. I will then also buy a new case and power supply, as this case has been through 3 incarnations already.
Thank you for your help.
dagwolf
Dagwolf, TAC or thermally
)
Dagwolf, TAC or thermally advantaged chassis designed today have a side vent with a duct to ensure the outside air gets directly to the CPU. Many PC modders will also cut a vent in the top of the case and add a fan there to expel more hot air. With the side vents, CPU fans get air that is only 2 degrees warmer than ambient vs 15 degrees or more inside the chassis. Whether you use Intel or AMD, there are chassis available with an intake directly over the CPU. You can add a fan but most CPU fans will pull air in unassisted. (Some chassis include a duct with the side vent that really helps deliver cool air)
When you are adding your thermal interface material (grease, G751, AS5, whatever) keep it as thin as possible. if it is too thick it increases the thermal resistance and will act as an insulator. Gary's method of checking the surface temp of the heatsink to ensure good thermal transfer from the CPU is a good tip.
RE: Dagwolf, TAC or
)
Well, it's official. I'm a jackass.
My case did have a hole with fan over the CPU. When I bought the case way back when, the common wisdom was to use the fan as exhaust to draw hot air from the CPU. Well after reading your post, I reversed it to blow into the case. Guess what. My CPU temp dropped 14C. Right now it's running SETI, which usually ran at 67C, now it's running at 53C.
Once again, thanks to all of you for your help.
Now what to do with that other heatsink I ordered...Maybe start a farm...
dagwolf
RE: My case did have a
)
I'm glad you got your problem sorted. Do I understand you correctly that you had a case fan in the side of your case extracting air from over the top of the cpu fan which was trying to blow air in the opposite direction into the fins of the heatsink, effectively starving the cpu fan of an unhindered supply of cool air? I could well imagine that this would cause huge problems. By reversing the case fan you are now increasing the supply of cool air just where it is most needed. Is this what you did?
One point about AS5. I personally use it myself if I'm removing and replacing heatsinks. However there is a lot of unjustified hype about it. I have tried many experiments with AS5 including lapping the base of the heat sink prior to applying it as an extremely thin layer to a scrupulously clean mirror finish surface. I've then run two essentially identical boxes with all components, BIOS settings, degree of overclock, fan disposition, etc, being identical, apart from one box using the standard TIM and the other using the AS5 treatment. The best I could see was a 1-2C improvement for both AS5 and the lapping. I actually think the lapping did more than the AS5. I followed all the instructions on the AS5 website very carefully and was very careful to have a smooth wafer thin and even coating on a properly cleaned cpu die surface and a layer of AS5 rubbed into the mirror surface of the heatsink using a disposable plastic glove. I also saw no measurable drop in temperature over the so-called "bedding-in" period. Whilst it has the good feature of not drying out, I no longer bother to remove the standard TIM patch from a new heatsink just to put AS5 in its place. To me, the best thing to do is keep up a good supply of cool internal air and to upgrade the airflow of the cpu fan. My best cooling comes from using a 60mm to 90mm adapter and attaching a 90mm case fan to the top of the heat sink. That way I get faster airflow without needing high revs so the noise level is lower.
Cheers,
Gary.
RE: Now what to do with
)
Well Dagwolf, crunching has been known to be rather addicting. Since it sounds like you have a spare heatsink, it's only proper that you contine to grow that computer dna into a complete system and continue crunching. Congrats on feeding your CPU cool air! It's always a good thing when the forum can assist with an issue. -tahoe
RE: I'm glad you got your
)
Yes, that's it exactly. See previous post re: I'm a jackass.
I'm sure there's some hype, but I was mainly interested in the "not drying out" part. The "heatpad" that came with the AMD heatsink had dried out and was crumbling. I only saw the part about the extra heat passing capacity on the website after I had already bought the tube. It seems to be working fine and the running temps have actually dropped a couple of degrees over the past 48 hours with a few cooling off cycles thrown in per instructions, so I'm satisfied with it.
Thanks once again,
dagwolf
Ok, this is my last bump!
)
Ok, this is my last bump!