My Apologies To The Einstein Crunchers


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Profile Siran d'Vel'nahr
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Message 107625 - Posted 8 Nov 2010 12:48:15 UTC

    Greetings Einstein Crunchers,

    Last month, October, I decided to re-attache to Einstein@home since SETI@Home is going through, what I would like to call, a spurt of growth. Many of you know that SETI is in the process of receiving 2 new servers to better serve the project and the thousands of volunteers faithfully crunching SETI WUs.

    Not long after I started crunching Einstein on my i7 PC, I noticed some strange anomalous behavior. I would see WUs that were "Waiting for memory". I would also notice that after some time, I would see that text was missing from things like web pages and even things on the i7 such as the Windows start button would no longer say "Start" and tabs in my browser and HTML editor would also be blank. When shutting down a program, it would take a couple minutes for the window to go away. Programs would no longer start. BOINC would no longer make a connection to localhost after restarting it. The i7 re-booted all on its own once. I immediately suspected Einstein.

    Now, lets go back in time to May (I believe it was) when I built this i7 PC. I noticed strange things happening with my video display. My mouse cursor would suddenly jump from one point to another across the screen. Programs, like my HTML editor, would auto scroll while I would be doing my coding. When on a website, I would be reading a page and suddenly be transported back a page or 2 as if I hit the back button, which I hadn't. I suspected that there was something flakey about my new PCI-E video card. I lived with it for several months.

    When I saw the problems I started having, when starting Einstein again, I figured, even though I still suspected that Einstein was at the root of the current problems, that my video card was getting worse. So, a couple days ago, I bought a new one and installed it. The problems I was seeing, before Einstein, went away. Good call on that one, the "old" card was indeed flakey. But, I was still observing the problems that manifested after starting Einstein again. My suspicion of Einstein was getting greater.

    I mentioned these problems in another thread, here, and a few members gave me some suggestions to try to alleviate my problems. A few of them had no affect, but, I did get a definitive explanation for my problem. It was indeed Einstein that was the cause.

    But, my i7 was also at fault, sort of. I'm not running a 64 bit OS, so WinXP Pro is not seeing all of my 4GB of RAM. Einstein uses a great deal of RAM, due to the size of the WUs, and perhaps other factors as well. Since my 32 bit OS is only seeing 3GB of RAM and 8 Einstein WUs are taking up 2 of those GBs, the i7 was left with 1GB for everything else including BOINC.

    And now for the apology: About 45 minutes ago, give or take, I checked on the i7 and BOINC. You see, after about 8 to 10 hours of continuous running, BOINC would start creating havoc with the i7 and I would have to re-boot the PC. When I checked on the progress of BOINC, I saw that 175 WUs were reporting "Computational error"(s). I had 5 completed WUs waiting to report. Suffice to say, there probably are many of you out there waiting for the results of those 175 WUs, and for that I do apologize.

    For the time being, I have resigned myself not to run Einstein. As a matter of fact, BOINC is sitting idle right now with nothing to do. I do plan on upgrading to a 64 bit OS (WinXP Pro, not Win7). I may even decide to double my RAM to 8GB. Maybe then I will start crunching Einstein again. But, right now, I do not want what happened this morning to happen again. It is NOT fair to the rest of you waiting for results so you can get the credit for the work you have already done.

    My thanks go out to Mikey, Gundolf and DanNeely for the help they gave me. I really appreciate it! :)

    And now, it's time to do my normal routine(s), now that the i7 is free to do my bidding, once again. ;)

    Have a great day, everyone! :)

    Keep on BOINCing...! :)

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    Message 107626 - Posted 8 Nov 2010 14:44:04 UTC - in response to Message 107625.

      ...Since my 32 bit OS is only seeing 3GB of RAM and 8 Einstein WUs are taking up 2 of those GBs, the i7 was left with 1GB for everything else including BOINC...

      What about reducing the number of concurrently running BOINC tasks, instead of stopping altogether?

      Set "On multiprocessors, use at most __% of the processors" to 50% (25%, 13%) to use only 4 (2, 1) out of your 8 cores. That should reduce the memory burden enough so that you can continue crunching without problems.

      And don't forget that running CUDA tasks can also affect the graphic performance up to (seemingly) freezing the screen.

      Gruß,
      Gundolf
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      Michael Karlinsky
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      Message 107627 - Posted 8 Nov 2010 14:53:03 UTC

        Hi Siran,

        error message is always:

        <error_message>signature verification failed</error_message>


        Seems sth. is messing with your downloads, firewall, antiv virus. Try to disable/exclude BOINC and try again!?

        Michael
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        Profile Siran d'Vel'nahr
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        Message 107628 - Posted 8 Nov 2010 16:40:34 UTC - in response to Message 107626.

          -[ snip ]-

          What about reducing the number of concurrently running BOINC tasks, instead of stopping altogether?

          Set "On multiprocessors, use at most __% of the processors" to 50% (25%, 13%) to use only 4 (2, 1) out of your 8 cores. That should reduce the memory burden enough so that you can continue crunching without problems.

          And don't forget that running CUDA tasks can also affect the graphic performance up to (seemingly) freezing the screen.

          Gruß,
          Gundolf

          Greetings Gundolf,

          Sorry, but that would defeat the purpose that I built my i7 for to begin with.

          My new video card will probably handle CUDA WUs better than the defective one did, but that was not why I got the card. I don't do CUDA, yet.

          Another thing that kinda disturbs me is the amount of storage Einstein requires and is currently using. When I had a full compliment of WUs, about 215 or so, Einstein took up almost 2 GB of space. Granted, I have a 500 GB drive, but it's the fact that with all the WUs gone, Einstein is still taking over .5 GB. SETI is taking only 31 MB, Orbit 0(zero) and Virtual Prairie, which I just attached to, 484K. Seems to me, unless there is some underlying logical reason for the over sized WUs, Einstein could reduce the size of them and not put so much stress on users PCs. In my opinion, it's arrogant to assume that EVERYONE has a PC that can handle the work they bulldoze out to us. Or that users will (can) just go out and get what's needed to upgrade their PC to handle the load from Einstein.

          When I ran Einstein, in the past, I do not remember having this problem with their WUs. And back then I was running a single core with HT and I doubt even 1 GB of memory.

          Einstein will remain on hold, but attached, until I decide on whether I will "upgrade" my i7 to better handle the load or not.

          Thanks for the suggestion anyway, Gundolf! :)

          Keep on BOINCing...! :)

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          Message 107629 - Posted 8 Nov 2010 17:00:06 UTC - in response to Message 107627.

            Hi Siran,

            error message is always:

            <error_message>signature verification failed</error_message>


            Seems sth. is messing with your downloads, firewall, antiv virus. Try to disable/exclude BOINC and try again!?

            Michael

            Greetings Michael,

            Well, at this point in time, I believe that error message to be a moot point. That message was on one of the 175 WUs that whacked on me this morning. Up until that point, I had no problem getting, crunching, uploading and reporting WUs as long as I kept a close eye on the i7 and managed to "refresh" it before something really drastic happen like that which happened this morning. I have never had a conflict problem between BOINC and my firewalls or anti-virus software. And, I have both a hardware and software firewall.

            Thanks, though, for bringing this to my attention anyway. I truly doubt I need to deal with that error.

            Have a great day, Michael. :)

            Keep on BOINCing...! :)

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            Message 107630 - Posted 8 Nov 2010 17:04:23 UTC

              Einstein is taking me 512 MB of disk space. I have two 160 GB disks inside my workstation and an external disk of 1.4 TB used as a backup disk. Storage is rather cheap today. My RAM is 5 GB out of a possible 8 GB. I am using a 32-bit Linux which is pae and could use up to 64 GB RAM. I am running 3 BOINC projects on my Opteron 1210 with two cores (AQUA, Einstein and QMC). Other 4 projects (SETI, QuantumFIRE, CPDN and LHC are not giving me work at this moment, for various reasons). My last CPDN job took 4600 hours before erroring but, due to the trickle method, I did not lose all my credits.
              Tullio
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              Message 107631 - Posted 8 Nov 2010 17:36:37 UTC

                Hi Siran!

                I can only tell something from my own experience:
                - The 860 is known to be running a bit hot, hope u have a sufficient cooling solution on the chip.
                - i looked on the asus webpage about your P7P55D-E PRO, i see only a 4 pin power connector for the cpu. For normal use that is no problem, but for crunchers, its nearly on the edge. i take 4 pin boards only for i5 chips, not for i7. i get the i7 only stable with a 8 pin power supply connector.

                With the other problems, dont know, can be all or nothing, for my own, i think, top modern hardware needs an OS wich can handle the new technology. On nearly 10 year old OS like XP, its nearly obvious to see some unwanted effects.

                Hope, my brainstorming helps you a bit further.

                Greetings

                Chris
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                Message 107632 - Posted 8 Nov 2010 18:39:35 UTC - in response to Message 107631.

                  Last modified: 8 Nov 2010 18:45:34 UTC

                  Hi Siran!

                  I can only tell something from my own experience:
                  - The 860 is known to be running a bit hot, hope u have a sufficient cooling solution on the chip.
                  - i looked on the asus webpage about your P7P55D-E PRO, i see only a 4 pin power connector for the cpu. For normal use that is no problem, but for crunchers, its nearly on the edge. i take 4 pin boards only for i5 chips, not for i7. i get the i7 only stable with a 8 pin power supply connector.

                  With the other problems, dont know, can be all or nothing, for my own, i think, top modern hardware needs an OS wich can handle the new technology. On nearly 10 year old OS like XP, its nearly obvious to see some unwanted effects.

                  Hope, my brainstorming helps you a bit further.

                  Greetings

                  Chris

                  Greetings Chris,

                  Here are my i7 SPECIFICATIONS:
                  Intel i7-860 2.80 GHz CPU
                  Corsair H50 CPU cooling system
                  Asus P7P55D-E Pro MoBo
                  Galaxy nVidia GeForce GT 430 PCI-E 1MB GDDR3 RAM (CUDA Enabled)
                  Kingston 4GB PC3 10600 DDR3 RAM (Dual Channel)
                  Western Digital 500GB 3G SATA HDD x 2 = 1TB Storage
                  Micro$oft WinXP Pro 32 bit
                  BOINC v6.10.58

                  Yes, I know about the 860 running hot. :( That is why I installed the Corsair cooler for it.

                  According to my motherboard manual, and what I saw physically on the board, if the 8 pin connector you speak of is for ATX power, not to be confused with the 24 pin ATX power connector, then yes it is 8 pin. But, I only have a 4 lead cable/4 pin connector running to it. 4 of the connector's pins, on the board, have a block-off plate covering them. The manual does not specify removing it, just that if the 8 pin is not connected, then the PC will not boot. Well, it boots, no problem. :)

                  I have a modular PSU. I'm not sure if it has another port for a 4 pin ATX connection or not. If it does, I may have to use the Google machine and see what I can find on the Internet about my motherboard. Maybe someone else asked about the 8 pin connector on the board, and the cover over the 4 pins.

                  Another thought, I have a newer modular PSU and looked at my unused cables. I do have an 8 pin to 6 pin cable and an 8 pin to 6/8 pin cable. Perhaps the 8 pin connection came out after the PSU was built that is currently powering my i7. Perhaps it is time to get a new PSU for the i7 as well. Scratch those cables! Upon further investigation (looking at the specs on the PSU box), those cables are for PCI Express. It does show that an 8 pin to 8 pin cable is part of the inventory, but it is not in my spares. Perhaps it is being used in my Linux PC that the PSU went into.

                  So, what you're saying, about my OS, is that it's time I upgrade to Win7 Pro 64 bit? ;) Well, since there are things I do that I cannot do with the Linux PC, I guess the upgrade is inevitable, huh? :)

                  Thanks for your "brainstorming" Chris! Gave me more to think about. :)

                  Keep on BOINCing...! :)

                  [edit]
                  edited for clarity...
                  [/edit]
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                  Message 107634 - Posted 8 Nov 2010 20:17:41 UTC - in response to Message 107632.

                    then yes it is 8 pin. But, I only have a 4 lead cable/4 pin connector running to it. 4 of the connector's pins, on the board, have a block-off plate covering them. The manual does not specify removing it, just that if the 8 pin is not connected, then the PC will not boot. Well, it boots, no problem. :)

                    That 4+4 pin power connector has parallel connections in the two halves. So populating both halves reduces resistance in the power input to the board, which lowers heat (power dissipated) at the connection and improves onboard supply voltage and reduces variation. As with the "optional" portion of the wide ATX power connector, which also has extra power connections in parallel with the main part, it is not surprising to have the system run with it not populated, but you are better off hooking it up if you can.

                    My i7 motherboard had stickers over both of these optional sections--I just took them off as I inserted the proper inputs from my power supply.

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                    Message 107635 - Posted 8 Nov 2010 21:22:57 UTC - in response to Message 107632.


                      Greetings Chris,

                      Here are my i7 SPECIFICATIONS:
                      Intel i7-860 2.80 GHz CPU
                      Corsair H50 CPU cooling system
                      Asus P7P55D-E Pro MoBo
                      Galaxy nVidia GeForce GT 430 PCI-E 1MB GDDR3 RAM (CUDA Enabled)
                      Kingston 4GB PC3 10600 DDR3 RAM (Dual Channel)
                      Western Digital 500GB 3G SATA HDD x 2 = 1TB Storage
                      Micro$oft WinXP Pro 32 bit
                      BOINC v6.10.58

                      Yes, I know about the 860 running hot. :( That is why I installed the Corsair cooler for it.

                      According to my motherboard manual, and what I saw physically on the board, if the 8 pin connector you speak of is for ATX power, not to be confused with the 24 pin ATX power connector, then yes it is 8 pin. But, I only have a 4 lead cable/4 pin connector running to it. 4 of the connector's pins, on the board, have a block-off plate covering them. The manual does not specify removing it, just that if the 8 pin is not connected, then the PC will not boot. Well, it boots, no problem. :)


                      Yes, sry, was my fault, was time to clean up my TFT, but for being sure, i DLed also the manual :-)


                      I have a modular PSU. I'm not sure if it has another port for a 4 pin ATX connection or not. If it does, I may have to use the Google machine and see what I can find on the Internet about my motherboard. Maybe someone else asked about the 8 pin connector on the board, and the cover over the 4 pins.


                      like archae86 said before, try to populate them, its better.


                      Another thought, I have a newer modular PSU and looked at my unused cables. I do have an 8 pin to 6 pin cable and an 8 pin to 6/8 pin cable. Perhaps the 8 pin connection came out after the PSU was built that is currently powering my i7. Perhaps it is time to get a new PSU for the i7 as well. Scratch those cables! Upon further investigation (looking at the specs on the PSU box), those cables are for PCI Express. It does show that an 8 pin to 8 pin cable is part of the inventory, but it is not in my spares. Perhaps it is being used in my Linux PC that the PSU went into.

                      So, what you're saying, about my OS, is that it's time I upgrade to Win7 Pro 64 bit? ;) Well, since there are things I do that I cannot do with the Linux PC, I guess the upgrade is inevitable, huh? :)

                      Thanks for your "brainstorming" Chris! Gave me more to think about. :)

                      Keep on BOINCing...! :)

                      [edit]
                      edited for clarity...
                      [/edit]


                      I dont see your PSU on your Component-list; so following only guessing:
                      If you take your equipment and let the power consumption calculate on http://support.asus.com/PowerSupplyCalculator/PSCalculator.aspx, a minimum of 550 W is required. Imho some safety adding, you need to have something over 600 W.

                      For the OS: I can only say, W7 64 bit is really nice to have, but main point are the 64 bit. Even with XP. The memory border with 4 GB is not really up to date with todays performance monsters.

                      Hope my english bubbling make some sense :-)

                      Chris

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                      Message 107636 - Posted 8 Nov 2010 22:19:17 UTC

                        You're definitely seeing paging / swapping to disk. It's normal that this brings any HDD-equipped system to a crawl.

                        Sorry, but that would defeat the purpose that I built my i7 for to begin with.


                        There's a far easier solution than restricting the amount of concurrent threads: restrict the amount of main memory used by BOINC to ~33% (=1GB) or whatever number you like (is probably 50% now) and attach to at least one other project which uses less memory. Personally I like QMC: computationally intensive, stable work supply, good credits, interesting science and German ;)

                        You may need to adjust the ressource share, so that BOINC doesn't insist on trying to run 8 Einsteins and keeping 4 of them "waiting for memory" forever. Not sure, though.

                        MrS
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                        Message 107637 - Posted 8 Nov 2010 22:19:49 UTC - in response to Message 107632.

                          Last modified: 8 Nov 2010 23:27:32 UTC

                          Here are my i7 SPECIFICATIONS:
                          Intel i7-860 2.80 GHz CPU
                          Corsair H50 CPU cooling system
                          Asus P7P55D-E Pro MoBo
                          Galaxy nVidia GeForce GT 430 PCI-E 1MB GDDR3 RAM (CUDA Enabled)
                          Kingston 4GB PC3 10600 DDR3 RAM (Dual Channel)
                          Western Digital 500GB 3G SATA HDD x 2 = 1TB Storage
                          Micro$oft WinXP Pro 32 bit
                          BOINC v6.10.58

                          On the face of it with this spec, I'd have to say you ought have no trouble with E@H! It would seem that something about our WU's has caused a belly up though. The unit listing for your rig does not indicate a preference for any particular type of WU ( GW/ABP/CUDA) when it comes to errors. Now if one looks ( bottom of page ) at the stderr output for these units in error you'll see something like this ( some variations thereof ) :

                          <core_client_version>6.10.58</core_client_version> <![CDATA[ <message> app_version download error: couldn't get input files: <file_xfer_error> <file_name>einstein_S5GC1_3.02_windows_intelx86__S5GCESSE2.exe</file_name> <error_code>-120</error_code> <error_message>signature verification failed</error_message> </file_xfer_error> </message> ]]>

                          These go back right to the oldest error in you listing. This message pretty well hints that, whatever else is going on, BOINC can't find what it thinks ought be there come time to fire up a WU. Now also most of those WU's in error don't run for long ( or at all ) before that mode of exit occurs. However what I really don't understand is why a few of these units ( say this one ) go for 9K, 21K etc seconds before falling over if indeed the executable is missing - as stderr suggests.

                          So now I suggest we think of why can't BOINC find what it wants, and when it wants it. First thing I'd do is look in the E@H part of the BOINC directories and see if einstein_S5GC1_3.02_windows_intelx86__S5GCESSE2.exe or einsteinbinary_ABP2_3.11_windows_intelx86__ABP2cuda23.exe are there at all - heck, search the whole machine for that matter. So if it is present, and where it ought to be ( BOINC has per project repositories on your drive ) then we need to think why can't it access? That is, what does signature verification failed mean etc .... :-)

                          Cheers, Mike.

                          ( edit ) Another thought. Are any of your disks in a RAID configuration ( even RAID 0 )? For WD, it's either EADS or EARS ( I can't remember which ), that don't 'hold' very long in RAID arrays ( spin-up lag? or somesuch ) and so drop out of concurrency forcing a rebuild or the RAID becomes invalid ....

                          ( edit ) .... and since 'RAID' 0 doesn't actually have any redundancy then you can be stuffed in such circumstances ie. you were better off not linking the drives in an array fashion at all .
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                          Message 107638 - Posted 8 Nov 2010 22:34:53 UTC - in response to Message 107628.

                            Last modified: 8 Nov 2010 22:36:35 UTC

                            Sorry, but that would defeat the purpose that I built my i7 for to begin with.

                            Using an i7 with a 32bit OS is blasphemy. You expect to run with 8 threads and then you physically hamper those 8 threads by telling them they're only able to use 3 GB of memory total. You defeated the purpose of the i7 by adding XP, Rick. Go 7, go 64bit Ultimate. It's cool. :P
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                            Message 107643 - Posted 8 Nov 2010 23:34:15 UTC

                              Greetings everyone,

                              Wow! So much information and suggestions. Not sure where to start so...

                              @ archae86: I went to the basement and dug out the box that my modular PSU and its cables came in and rifled through the cables. I found the 8 pin ATX cable and replaced the 4 pin with it. I'm not sure if it was my imagination or what, but the PC seemed to boot faster. Probably imagination... ;) Thanks! :)

                              @ Chris (Highlander): I went to the Asus website and entered my information. I even added one or 2 extra items just for GP (general principle). The results were a recommendation 100W less than my PSU is rated at. Recommendation: 450W PSU: 550W So, good to go there... Thanks! :)

                              @ MrS (ETA): I have BOINC set to 50% when in use and 90% when idle. I lowered the 'when in use' down from 75% when this all started. I will wait until I can upgrade to full 64 bit (OS and RAM) before resuming with Einstein. Thanks! :)

                              @ Mike Hewson: At this point the errors are moot. I'm not going to worry about them. I'm just sorry that the 175 error-ed WUs will cause other users to be delayed in getting credit for doing their work on them. My drives are not set in a RAID configuration. Winblows XP just would not see RAID even with the RAID driver(s) pre-loaded. Thanks! :)

                              @ Jord (Ageless): You never cease to make me laugh my friend. :D Blasphemy, huh? Yeah, I suppose so. I will go 64 bit when I get my tax return next year. It's only a few months, I believe I can handle 32 bit for the time being. ;) Thanks! :)

                              Well, it's almost time for dinner and TV, so I better get going. I'll check back in the morning.

                              Thanks again, everyone! :)

                              Keep on BOINCing...! :)

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                              Message 107644 - Posted 9 Nov 2010 0:36:05 UTC - in response to Message 107643.

                                Last modified: 9 Nov 2010 0:40:28 UTC

                                At this point the errors are moot. I'm not going to worry about them.


                                In general it is good to understand what the root cause of the problem is. Wouldn't it be a pity if you upgrade your system and then it turns out that the problem isn't related to the upgraded hardware?

                                I'm just sorry that the 175 error-ed WUs will cause other users to be delayed in getting credit for doing their work on them.


                                Don't worry, as your WUs failed early, most or all of them are reassigned and others are happy crunching on them so your wingmen are not really affected badly. [edit] After all we're all just volunteers.

                                Rob

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                                Message 107661 - Posted 9 Nov 2010 12:22:43 UTC - in response to Message 107628.

                                  Another thing that kinda disturbs me is the amount of storage Einstein requires and is currently using. When I had a full compliment of WUs, about 215 or so, Einstein took up almost 2 GB of space. Granted, I have a 500 GB drive, but it's the fact that with all the WUs gone, Einstein is still taking over .5 GB. SETI is taking only 31 MB, Orbit 0(zero) and Virtual Prairie, which I just attached to, 484K. Seems to me, unless there is some underlying logical reason for the over sized WUs, Einstein could reduce the size of them and not put so much stress on users PCs. In my opinion, it's arrogant to assume that EVERYONE has a PC that can handle the work they bulldoze out to us. Or that users will (can) just go out and get what's needed to upgrade their PC to handle the load from Einstein.
                                  Keep on BOINCing...! :)


                                  I think Einstein downloads a huge file full of stuff and then references it for alot for the workunits, so instead of you and I downloading 30 files over 30 connections to the Einstein Server, it sends us one big file that we reference and then we send it back and get another big file full of stuff. I used words like 'stuff' because I do not technically know what is in the big files, but it was discussed elsewhere.

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                                  Message 107663 - Posted 9 Nov 2010 12:36:34 UTC - in response to Message 107628.


                                    Another thing that kinda disturbs me is the amount of storage Einstein requires and is currently using. When I had a full compliment of WUs, about 215 or so, Einstein took up almost 2 GB of space. Granted, I have a 500 GB drive, but it's the fact that with all the WUs gone, Einstein is still taking over .5 GB. SETI is taking only 31 MB, Orbit 0(zero) and Virtual Prairie, which I just attached to, 484K. Seems to me, unless there is some underlying logical reason for the over sized WUs, Einstein could reduce the size of them and not put so much stress on users PCs. In my opinion, it's arrogant to assume that EVERYONE has a PC that can handle the work they bulldoze out to us. Or that users will (can) just go out and get what's needed to upgrade their PC to handle the load from Einstein.


                                    I really don't understand why people can complain of the disk usage since hard drive space is almost free nowadays. Usually computations should be optimized to minimize runtime, not memory usage. Spent computation time cannot be later 'recovered' but disk space can be regained afterwards.

                                    Maybe it's the fact I'm running Boinc on dedicated machines, but it seems Boinc projects just will not take advantage of the all the available memory. Currently the machines are running Linux and have 4-8 GB ram. It seems E@H will only use at most 256 MB per core, no matter what. If there was an option to double memory/disk usage and reduce runtime by 10%, I would definitely use it.

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                                    Message 107664 - Posted 9 Nov 2010 14:08:31 UTC

                                      Greetings all,

                                      I have now seen something new concerning my i7, something I hadn't seen before or during the current problem. But before I get into that, let me just say...

                                      Somewhere in all this I stated that I have 2 500 GB HDDs on my i7. I really don't care about the size of the WUs as it would pertain to my drives and have no real adverse affect on them. The point I was attempting to make, and what disturbed me, was the assumption that EVERYONE has a PC that can handle the load from Einstein.

                                      The WUs are roughly 250 MB in size. I was told that with my system setup, running 4 cores with HT and 3 recognized GB of RAM, 8 Einstein WUs are taking up 2 of the 3 GB of RAM, leaving 1 GB for everything else. Perhaps my swap file is not large enough to handle the task, which is what I am about to get into that I discovered this morning...

                                      I am currently trying to run Virtual Prairie. I finally got a boat load of WUs last night while I was getting my beauty sleep.;) I noticed a few symptoms had reappeared. I cleared everything up, including shutting down BOINC. No applications were running and the OS seemed to be functioning without any problems.

                                      I ran a-squared, an anti-malware scanner, and all it found were 9 bad cookies. I deleted them and shut down a-squared. Everything appeared to be running ok. I tried to start BOINC and once again, it could not make a connection to localhost. All I had was the tiny window that stated that BOINC was communicating with the client, or whatever it says. I shut down BOINC, which took a bit of time, less than a minute, when a balloon popped up on my task bar saying something about my virtual memory was not sufficient for the operation or some such thing and that it was being re-sized.

                                      My conclusion, in all this, is that, once again, my Windoze installation has become corrupted. I had to do at least 1 repair install several months ago. And, the funny thing about this is the fact that there were no problems with the i7 or Windoze until after I started running Einstein again. Is it any wonder that I have been suspecting Einstein ever since this problem started?

                                      I believe that what I need to do, now, is set VP to NNT and let the cache run dry. Keep a close, watchful eye on the i7 and BOINC and since I have noticed that the crap starts happening after about 8 to 10 hours of operation, shut down BOINC and re-boot about every 6 hours. Then, do a repair install, AGAIN, and hope for the best. In the wisdom of those reading this thread, would that be a wise course of action?

                                      BTW, I am posting this using my Linux box again, attempting to alleviate any stress on Windoze on the i7. :)

                                      I await any recommendations... :)

                                      Keep on BOINCing...! :) (I am certainly trying to!)

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                                      Richard Haselgrove
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                                      Message 107665 - Posted 9 Nov 2010 14:19:13 UTC - in response to Message 107664.

                                        ...
                                        My conclusion, in all this, is that, once again, my Windoze installation has become corrupted. I had to do at least 1 repair install several months ago. And, the funny thing about this is the fact that there were no problems with the i7 or Windoze until after I started running Einstein again. Is it any wonder that I have been suspecting Einstein ever since this problem started?
                                        ...

                                        You might like to look at this comment, and Bernd's response. My feeling is that most of the symptoms you're seeing, including the problem the BOINC Manager has communicating with the client, are due to this start-up disk access for Einsten tasks. And the disk access demands of your 8 i7 cores at startup will be even more severe than the demands of my 8 E5320 cores.

                                        If you can bear to walk away from your host during the start-up phase (and find some way of not starting Einstein on all 8 cores at once), I think you'll find that Einstein's steady-state resource usage is more reasonable when you come back.

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                                        Message 107667 - Posted 9 Nov 2010 15:12:41 UTC - in response to Message 107665.

                                          -[ snip ]-

                                          You might like to look at this comment, and Bernd's response. My feeling is that most of the symptoms you're seeing, including the problem the BOINC Manager has communicating with the client, are due to this start-up disk access for Einsten tasks. And the disk access demands of your 8 i7 cores at startup will be even more severe than the demands of my 8 E5320 cores.

                                          If you can bear to walk away from your host during the start-up phase (and find some way of not starting Einstein on all 8 cores at once), I think you'll find that Einstein's steady-state resource usage is more reasonable when you come back.

                                          Greetings Richard,

                                          Ok, that makes sense. I have Einstein on hold right now and am running VP. I just re-booted to get BOINC communicating with the client again. I knocked down the number or cores used by 4, in BOINC preferences.

                                          After all that, I fired up task manager to observe the performance graphs. The page file usage was over 5 GB and my available physical memory was at about 4 MB, this with only 4 VP WUs running! After a few minutes everything mellowed out to just over 2 GB page file usage and 1.6 GB available physical memory.

                                          Ok, now I'm really confused! I just looked at my VP WUs and they're barely over 100 bytes each! And still, a great deal of physical memory is being used. And not only that, I'm still getting "Waiting for memory" messages!

                                          Now I'm really baffled! I have never had this much problem with BOINC before, not even on the past, less powerful PCs I've built. At least not that I can remember. I have 2 WUs running and 2 "Waiting for memory". I still show 1.6 GB available physical memory. Why would a 100 byte WU need to be waiting for memory!?

                                          Keep on BOINCing...! :) (I'm trying already!!!)

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                                          Message 107668 - Posted 9 Nov 2010 15:49:22 UTC - in response to Message 107667.

                                            Hi,

                                            i do not know if this helps but i had some similar problems the last days and lost also wu's, einstein and gpugrid. On my side it was a problem with the virusscanner ( i hope ), made an update to the newest version, big mistake. Pagefile is growing all the time and the available memory is shrinking, nothing to see in the taskmanager, everything is looking ok for the processes. After deinstalling the new version it looks good again, at the moment i run a test with an older version of the scanner and startet gpu crunching on einstein also. At the moment the pagefile is not growing and no shrinking of the avaiable ram.
                                            I think tomorrow i know if it was the virusscanner, but at the moment it looks like.

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                                            Message 107669 - Posted 9 Nov 2010 16:10:59 UTC - in response to Message 107668.

                                              Hi,

                                              i do not know if this helps but i had some similar problems the last days and lost also wu's, einstein and gpugrid. On my side it was a problem with the virusscanner ( i hope ), made an update to the newest version, big mistake. Pagefile is growing all the time and the available memory is shrinking, nothing to see in the taskmanager, everything is looking ok for the processes. After deinstalling the new version it looks good again, at the moment i run a test with an older version of the scanner and startet gpu crunching on einstein also. At the moment the pagefile is not growing and no shrinking of the avaiable ram.
                                              I think tomorrow i know if it was the virusscanner, but at the moment it looks like.

                                              Greetings Rabbit,

                                              I just checked my virus scanner software and I haven't had a major program upgrade since August, just the engine and signatures have been updated regularly. So, I don't think that that is the problem. Thanks for the suggestion! :)

                                              Keep on BOINCing...! :) (I'm limping along for now!)

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                                              Message 107671 - Posted 9 Nov 2010 17:22:38 UTC - in response to Message 107667.

                                                After all that, I fired up task manager to observe the performance graphs. The page file usage was over 5 GB and my available physical memory was at about 4 MB, this with only 4 VP WUs running! After a few minutes everything mellowed out to just over 2 GB page file usage and 1.6 GB available physical memory.

                                                Ok, now I'm really confused! I just looked at my VP WUs and they're barely over 100 bytes each! And still, a great deal of physical memory is being used. And not only that, I'm still getting "Waiting for memory" messages!

                                                Now I'm really baffled! I have never had this much problem with BOINC before, not even on the past, less powerful PCs I've built. At least not that I can remember. I have 2 WUs running and 2 "Waiting for memory". I still show 1.6 GB available physical memory. Why would a 100 byte WU need to be waiting for memory!?

                                                Keep on BOINCing...! :) (I'm trying already!!!)


                                                VirtualPrairie uses an extraordinary amount of RAM, users report 500MB+ with a full 1GB per core/task regarded as required for smooth running.
                                                (My small laptop system already gets sluggish with only one core on VP)

                                                see this (and surrounding posts) and this from the VP forum.

                                                So, if your problems with Einstein are based on memeory issues, running VP will produce similar problems.
                                                ____________
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                                                Message 107674 - Posted 9 Nov 2010 17:55:36 UTC - in response to Message 107667.

                                                  Ok, now I'm really confused! I just looked at my VP WUs and they're barely over 100 bytes each! And still, a great deal of physical memory is being used. And not only that, I'm still getting "Waiting for memory" messages!

                                                  And what would the task size have to do with the amount of memory used? I can write you a small program that uses all of your machine's memory.

                                                  By the way, the actual Einstein (S5) tasks are also only a few bytes. What takes so much disk space are the (semi) permanent data files.

                                                  Gruß,
                                                  Gundolf

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                                                  Message 107675 - Posted 9 Nov 2010 19:38:40 UTC - in response to Message 107674.

                                                    Are you meaning the Ackermann doubly recursive function? It eats all the memory of any computer even for a couple of small integers.
                                                    Tullio
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                                                    Message 107677 - Posted 9 Nov 2010 21:23:52 UTC

                                                      Last modified: 9 Nov 2010 21:26:19 UTC

                                                      Greetings all,

                                                      Ok, here's what I have done and what I will be doing. I am determined to get to the bottom of this.

                                                      [ WHAT HAS BEEN DONE: ]
                                                      1. I have finished all WUs for all BOINC projects. All projects are set to NNT.
                                                      2. I have been working with the Computer Management program in Windoze. All devices are working properly. I looked at the system log in Event Viewer and found only one error which I deduced to be minor. No other errors or warnings after last re-boot.

                                                      [ WHAT I WILL DO: ]
                                                      1. The i7 will be running without BOINC for a few days or so.
                                                      2. I will do my normal daily activities on the i7, less BOINC.
                                                      3. I will occasionally monitor my system event log for any anomalous entries.
                                                      4. If I see any anomalous entries in the system event log, I will research those errors/warnings on Micro$oft's website through the link provided in Event Viewer.
                                                      5. If I see no anomalous entries after, say, 2 or 3 days, I will restart BOINC and allow VP to run.

                                                      I believe that by following the above plan, I will narrow down the problem I am experiencing. I still say it's strange that this should all start when I restart crunching Einstein. Perhaps BOINC got corrupted somehow. At any rate, I feel I will get to the bottom of this, once and for all.

                                                      Thank you all for your suggestions and support. I really appreciate it! :)

                                                      Keep on BOINCing...! :) (I'm on hold for the time being. Actually, my Linux box is still crunching SETI. :) )
                                                      ____________
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                                                      Message 107681 - Posted 9 Nov 2010 22:22:41 UTC - in response to Message 107677.

                                                        Something else you may want to add to your to-do list: memory checks.
                                                        If the problems manifest themselves when lots of memory is being used, it can also be that one or more memory sticks have damage in the higher memory ranges.

                                                        Just run memtest86+ for a day on that machine. If it survives that, you're 99% sure it ain't the memory. Since computers are finicky things, keep a 1% option it is memory. ;-)
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                                                        Message 107682 - Posted 9 Nov 2010 22:23:13 UTC - in response to Message 107675.

                                                          Are you meaning the Ackermann doubly recursive function? It eats all the memory of any computer even for a couple of small integers.
                                                          Tullio

                                                          I didn't have any specific function in mind. Actually, it would be enough to just fill the complete memory with some constant values.

                                                          Gruß,
                                                          Gundolf

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                                                          Message 107683 - Posted 9 Nov 2010 22:41:11 UTC - in response to Message 107681.

                                                            Something else you may want to add to your to-do list: memory checks.
                                                            If the problems manifest themselves when lots of memory is being used, it can also be that one or more memory sticks have damage in the higher memory ranges.

                                                            Just run memtest86+ for a day on that machine. If it survives that, you're 99% sure it ain't the memory. Since computers are finicky things, keep a 1% option it is memory. ;-)

                                                            Greetings Jord,

                                                            That was the first thing I did this morning, just not all day. I forgot to mention using memtest86.

                                                            Why only 99%? Why not 99.9% or 99.99%? ;)

                                                            Keep on BOINCing...! :)

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                                                            Message 107684 - Posted 9 Nov 2010 22:47:27 UTC - in response to Message 107683.

                                                              Why only 99%? Why not 99.9% or 99.99%? ;)

                                                              'Cause you're not cheap. :P
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                                                              Message 107685 - Posted 10 Nov 2010 0:23:45 UTC - in response to Message 107684.

                                                                When windows bugs out, doing a 'fix' isn't always a good idea. Sometimes it's like trying to put a band aid on cancer, you are better off slicking and reinstalling.

                                                                You said you had like 172 tasks to report. What about changing your setting to something like only keep 0.2 days worth of work on your system, so that way you are not loading up a huge potential workload and pretty much get a new one as you finish an old one. If you find you are having comm problems then there isn't a bunch of stuff piling up on you.

                                                                Just a suggestion.
                                                                Thanks for listening.
                                                                Aaron

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                                                                Message 107687 - Posted 10 Nov 2010 0:54:59 UTC

                                                                  The memtest is a good idea, as with 'quiet' activity only a fraction is use, but as one ramps up activity there is a greater chance of being allocated any dodgy areas. It only takes one crappy pointer, say, and you're belly up. Having said that I've always found Kingston's to be quite a good brand ..... but that doesn't mean they'll never cut a bad chip. I suppose the other question ( which you may have answered already ) is whether there is any overclocking/turbos etc enabled in the BIOS ROM of whatever. If so, cut back to defaults ....

                                                                  Cheers, Mike.
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                                                                  Message 107691 - Posted 10 Nov 2010 3:48:24 UTC - in response to Message 107687.

                                                                    Did you turn off the option to keep work units in memory? That should help you a little. How many projects are you running concurrently on this PC? Do you have the Windows XP /3Gb switch set? Windows XP may be reserving half of your memory for the OS and half is allowed for the application.
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                                                                    Message 107695 - Posted 10 Nov 2010 10:44:02 UTC - in response to Message 107685.

                                                                      When windows bugs out, doing a 'fix' isn't always a good idea. Sometimes it's like trying to put a band aid on cancer, you are better off slicking and reinstalling.

                                                                      You said you had like 172 tasks to report. What about changing your setting to something like only keep 0.2 days worth of work on your system, so that way you are not loading up a huge potential workload and pretty much get a new one as you finish an old one. If you find you are having comm problems then there isn't a bunch of stuff piling up on you.

                                                                      Just a suggestion.
                                                                      Thanks for listening.
                                                                      Aaron

                                                                      Greetings Aaron,

                                                                      You make a good point about repair install vs full re-install. But, if I'm going to do a full re-install, I'm moving up to 64 bit.

                                                                      I don't see how the size of my WU cache is going to have a bearing on BOINC doing its thing with those WUs. I have my cache set large due to the many outages that SETI was having. I wanted to make sure the PC could continue working through those outages.

                                                                      Thanks for the suggestions. :)

                                                                      Keep on BOINCing...! :)

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                                                                      Message 107696 - Posted 10 Nov 2010 10:59:36 UTC - in response to Message 107687.

                                                                        The memtest is a good idea, as with 'quiet' activity only a fraction is use, but as one ramps up activity there is a greater chance of being allocated any dodgy areas. It only takes one crappy pointer, say, and you're belly up. Having said that I've always found Kingston's to be quite a good brand ..... but that doesn't mean they'll never cut a bad chip. I suppose the other question ( which you may have answered already ) is whether there is any overclocking/turbos etc enabled in the BIOS ROM of whatever. If so, cut back to defaults ....

                                                                        Cheers, Mike.

                                                                        Greetings Mike,

                                                                        Whenever I start having problems with a PC, whether this i7 of my Linux PC, one of the first things I grab is my CD with memtest86 on it. It's much more convenient now that the makers have made it so it can be on a boot-able CD.

                                                                        I have always bought nothing but Kingston DIMMs. Just as I have only always bought Asus motherboards, Western Digital HDDs, Intel CPUs, etc. I tend to stick with what has always worked faithfully for me. :) I usually build a new PC about every 2 years.

                                                                        The i7 is running "stock from the box", no overclocking or anything of that nature.

                                                                        Keep on BOINCing...! :)

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                                                                        Message 107697 - Posted 10 Nov 2010 11:06:28 UTC - in response to Message 107691.

                                                                          Did you turn off the option to keep work units in memory? That should help you a little. How many projects are you running concurrently on this PC? Do you have the Windows XP /3Gb switch set? Windows XP may be reserving half of your memory for the OS and half is allowed for the application.

                                                                          Greetings Wumpus,

                                                                          Several years ago, I had read, most likely on the SETI forum, that leaving the WUs in memory is not good unless one has an enormous amount of memory. No, I have the WUs removed from memory if not being worked on.

                                                                          Windows XP /3Gb switch? That's a new one on me. Could you give me a little more info on that?

                                                                          Keep on BOINCing...! :)

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                                                                          Message 107702 - Posted 10 Nov 2010 12:23:25 UTC - in response to Message 107664.

                                                                            Greetings all,

                                                                            I have now seen something new concerning my i7, something I hadn't seen before or during the current problem. But before I get into that, let me just say...

                                                                            I ran a-squared, an anti-malware scanner, and all it found were 9 bad cookies. I deleted them and shut down a-squared. Everything appeared to be running ok. I tried to start BOINC and once again, it could not make a connection to localhost. All I had was the tiny window that stated that BOINC was communicating with the client, or whatever it says. I shut down BOINC, which took a bit of time, less than a minute, when a balloon popped up on my task bar saying something about my virtual memory was not sufficient for the operation or some such thing and that it was being re-sized.

                                                                            Keep on BOINCing...! :) (I am certainly trying to!)


                                                                            The box that comes up asking you to exit boinc or to cancel when you first start boinc is a normal thing and if you just give it a minute it will go away and boinc will start crunching. My personal opinion, and I have done no checking to prove it, is that boinc is trying to communicate with your projects websites and during the initial startup that can take a minute or two. yes i too have exited boinc and then restarted it and it worked just fine, yes mine has sat there for more than 2 minutes before I exited and then restarted it and it worked just fine, but I still think if you just leave it alone it will work just fine and start crunching on its own.

                                                                            Your virtual memory is a whole other problem than the slow to start up problem I think. Have you played with your virtual memory settings so they are not the default settings? Specifically moving them to the non C: drive is what I am looking for? This is a 'tweak' that some people say to do, but it can cause some funky problems if your system crashes.

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                                                                            Message 107703 - Posted 10 Nov 2010 13:05:36 UTC - in response to Message 107702.

                                                                              The best description I found on memory in 32 bit windows is
                                                                              http://www.dansdata.com/askdan00015.htm
                                                                              Your large (memory) graphics card could also be partly to blame.
                                                                              ____________

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                                                                              Message 107718 - Posted 10 Nov 2010 23:25:46 UTC

                                                                                Greetings everyone,

                                                                                *** UPDATE ***

                                                                                Having used the Google machine, I took the suggestion from Wumpus and enabled the /3GB switch in my boot.ini file. Yes, I backed it up first. Thanks Wumpus! :)

                                                                                Someone, here, mentioned "PAE". "Physical Address Extension" has been added to the General tab in System Properties. From what I have read, doing what I have done above will help prevent virtual memory fragmentation. That's a good thing I would assume.

                                                                                Ok, the i7 ran for 26 hours with Firefox running with 12+ tabs. Several of those tabs had websites that refresh regularly. I also ran my HTML editor with about 10 files open, one per tab. Plus, I had Notepad going with a file open. I also used my ftp client to do some updates on my website this morning. The i7 didn't even bat an eyelash.

                                                                                Now I'm going to add BOINC to the mix. It won't be crunching, just communicating with project's servers now and then. We'll see how that fairs when I get home from work tomorrow afternoon. Or, in the morning when I get up for work, should things head south again.

                                                                                I took a look at Task Manager, with everything running, and the page file usage is less than a GB while the available physical memory is over 2 GB.

                                                                                If all is well when I get home from work tomorrow, I will open the gates to VP and allow some WU crunching to happen. If all goes well after that, I will open the gates to Einstein again.

                                                                                Wish me luck, guys! :)

                                                                                Keep on BOINCing...! :)

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                                                                                Message 107719 - Posted 10 Nov 2010 23:40:58 UTC - in response to Message 107703.

                                                                                  The best description I found on memory in 32 bit windows is
                                                                                  http://www.dansdata.com/askdan00015.htm
                                                                                  Your large (memory) graphics card could also be partly to blame.

                                                                                  Greetings Wumpus,

                                                                                  I just looked, and my graphics card is using 0 (zero) bytes of my RAM. It's not listed in the memory section of Device Manager. Woohoo! :)

                                                                                  Thanks for the suggestion about the /3GB switch (please see my previous post).

                                                                                  Keep on BOINCing...! :)

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                                                                                  Message 107722 - Posted 11 Nov 2010 1:10:34 UTC - in response to Message 107719.

                                                                                    another thing you can try as you attempt to ramp your boinc work back up is to set it for low processor use and ramp it up slowly so you observe and hopefully intervene before anything goes south on you too badly.

                                                                                    Good luck with everything.
                                                                                    Aaron

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                                                                                    Message 107724 - Posted 11 Nov 2010 4:51:28 UTC - in response to Message 107665.

                                                                                      My feeling is that most of the symptoms you're seeing, including the problem the BOINC Manager has communicating with the client, are due to this start-up disk access for Einsten tasks. And the disk access demands of your 8 i7 cores at startup will be even more severe than the demands of my 8 E5320 cores

                                                                                      This seemingly unproductive period during Einstein execution has troubled me for a long time. I just timed a startup on my E5620 host (four cores running HT, so 8 virtual CPU's). It took almost three minutes from the time it started running the aps before it reached the "useful" phase when the enormous I/O, appreciable idle time, and significant CPU time charged to System went away and normal computing began. With the flavor of WU currently on my host, Process Explorer showed just over 3 Gigabytes of I/O Read to that point. It appears that this number goes up as the frequency explored by the WU goes up--so this effect keeps getting worse as we press on to higher and higher frequencies.

                                                                                      I believe I've noticed that the actual wall clock time required can be materially increased by one's Antivirus application. If your AV makes it easy to pause protection, it might amuse you to compare this startup time with and without. I'm running Kaspersky on this host, and when I tried the comparison just now, there was little difference--perhaps ten or twenty percent without, and that possibly really an artifact of longer time since boot rather than really an AV side effect. Still, in the past on another host I think I've seen a much larger effect with other AV programs--probably eSet NOD32 and possibly Norton of some years ago.

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                                                                                      Message 107727 - Posted 11 Nov 2010 11:34:33 UTC

                                                                                        Greetings everyone,

                                                                                        *** UPDATE ***

                                                                                        After I had made my change to my boot.ini file, I continued to read the page that Wumpus posted an URL to, located here. Evidently, due to trouble that the switch, /3GB, was causing, requiring PAE aware drivers and what PAE sent to non-PAE aware drivers, Micro$oft effectively disabled PAE. Adding the /3GB switch does virtually nothing now. I have no idea if PAE aware drivers even exist now since that article was written. I have no ambition to go scouring the universe in the hopes of finding them when it won't do me any good anyway, according to that article.

                                                                                        I noticed the "nothing" that it causes last night when I tried to start my ftp client, FileZilla. I instantly got an error message saying, roughly, "FileZilla is not a valid Windows 32 application". I got rid of that alert and tried to do something in Firefox and received the same alert for Firefox. So, I closed all my running apps and reversed the modification I made to boot.ini and rebooted. I then started all the apps mentioned in my post last night. FileZilla started no problem this time and no further problems with Firefox.

                                                                                        The i7 has been running now for just over 10 hours with no adverse affects, so far. Task manager is reporting 1.1GB of page file usage and 1.96GB of available physical memory, up and down just slightly, respectively, from last night. As I have mentioned before, my problem would manifest itself after about 8 to 10 hours of continued operation, whether or not I was doing anything on the i7.

                                                                                        I have a short day at work today, don't have to be there until 1pm my time, so until I leave I will continue to do my regular routine on the i7 and monitor it for any abnormalities. When I get home from work, I will see how it is doing then, without me doing anything on it.

                                                                                        @Aaron (Ascholten):

                                                                                        another thing you can try as you attempt to ramp your boinc work back up is to set it for low processor use and ramp it up slowly so you observe and hopefully intervene before anything goes south on you too badly.

                                                                                        Good idea! :) I will do that. Another thing I did was to change the cache size in my BOINC (local) preferences to 0 (zero) days and changed those in my preferences on Einstein and VP. I'm assuming that putting a 0 (zero) in that preference in BOINC will cause BOINC to use the value set in my account preferences. Would that be a correct assumption?

                                                                                        Have a great day everyone! :)

                                                                                        Keep on BOINCing...! :)

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                                                                                        Message 107731 - Posted 11 Nov 2010 13:26:49 UTC

                                                                                          I am currently running 4 BOINC projects on my Linux box with a 32-bit SuSE Linux 11.1 pae, 5 GB RAM, 2 160 GB disks plus a 1.4 TB external disk as backup. My running projects are AQUA (multithreading), Einstein, QMC and CPDN Famous with an extended deadline. All switch regularly every 60 minutes on my Opteron 1210 CPU with two cores. AQUA takes both cores, the others only one.
                                                                                          Tullio
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                                                                                          Message 107732 - Posted 11 Nov 2010 13:33:03 UTC

                                                                                            Greetings everyone,

                                                                                            *** UPDATE ***

                                                                                            Well, I do believe I have narrowed my problem down to Windoze or one of 2 apps, and the one related to this and other projects has the higher percentage of suspicion between the apps. I believe that my problem is caused by BOINC and/or Firefox. But then, I had also suspected that my Windoze installation was hosed, which also has a high probability.

                                                                                            After 11 hours of continuous operation, the dog doo hit the fan. I was researching an ISO file called Ultimate Boot CD. It was recommended by a user over on the SETI forum. I was attempting to find a suitable mirror to download the ISO when Firefox locked up tight. I had to use brute force and enlist Task managers help in removing the app. Once it was gone, I shut down BOINC. Everything appeared to be back to normal, notice I said "appeared".

                                                                                            I was checking things out in Task manager when I noticed that my BOINC tray icon was still in the tray. I also watched as it and the icon for a utility called TThrottle switched from normal to all black, to normal, to all black, etc. (NOTE: those 2 are related in that TThrottle is a regulator for BOINC to help keep CPU temps to a minimum). Firefox would not restart, I kept getting a few different error messages. One was something about a .DRV file not being a "valid image" and another was a cryptic message that the "application failed to initialize properly...".

                                                                                            Also, after a few minutes, while in Task manager, I noticed that when switching to the performance tab, the previous tab display was under the graphs. I shut down Task manager and it would no longer restart, giving me that same cryptic message about not initializing properly.

                                                                                            I re-booted the i7...

                                                                                            Now, one thing I have failed to mention in all of this concerns Windoze booting up. I didn't mention this because, well, now that I think about it, I have, but I haven't mentioned this concern because doing a Windoze repair install sux in the extreme. And doing a clean install sux even more.

                                                                                            When the Windoze cylon splash screen is doing its thing, it gets to the point of checking for a mouse and keyboard when a tiny little graphic artifact appears on screen. It's the same colors as the logo. It's about 1 or 2 pixels high and about 10 or 12 pixels wide. The last time I did a repair install, I was seeing that same artifact when the cylon splash was on screen. I call it "cylon" because of the blue progress indicator. ;)

                                                                                            Now, in my update yesterday, I stated that the i7 ran for 26+ hours continuously without any apparent "side affect", without BOINC running. I have given my reason to suspect Windoze and with the event this morning, it gives me cause to suspect BOINC and/or Firefox. Or is it possible to be something conflictual with all 3 running concurrent?

                                                                                            This is really starting to get to me. And now that I think about it, it is just so suspicious that this all starts when I re-attache to Einstein...

                                                                                            Keep on BOINCing...! :) (only my Linux box is fulfilling that... something to be said about running Linux...)


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                                                                                            Message 107733 - Posted 11 Nov 2010 13:33:32 UTC - in response to Message 107727.

                                                                                              Another thing I did was to change the cache size in my BOINC (local) preferences to 0 (zero) days and changed those in my preferences on Einstein and VP. I'm assuming that putting a 0 (zero) in that preference in BOINC will cause BOINC to use the value set in my account preferences. Would that be a correct assumption?

                                                                                              Nope. The local zero will override the online values.

                                                                                              You'll either have to set them locally too or manually edit your global_prefs_override.xml file and delete the offending lines. With the next change of your local preferences, BOINC will enter the online values into your local preferences, though.

                                                                                              Gruß,
                                                                                              Gundolf

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                                                                                              Message 107740 - Posted 11 Nov 2010 20:43:23 UTC - in response to Message 107732.

                                                                                                Last modified: 11 Nov 2010 20:46:15 UTC

                                                                                                Greetings everyone,

                                                                                                *** UPDATE ***

                                                                                                Well, I do believe I have narrowed my problem down to Windoze or one of 2 apps, ... But then, I had also suspected that my Windoze installation was hosed, which also has a high probability.

                                                                                                After 11 hours of continuous operation, the dog doo hit the fan.

                                                                                                ... utility called TThrottle switched from normal to all black, to normal, to all black, etc. (NOTE: those 2 are related in that TThrottle is a regulator for BOINC to help keep CPU temps to a minimum). ...


                                                                                                All things in running computers should be completely deterministic and certain. There should be no need for any uncertainty and 'probability'. Unless that is you go quantum... :-)

                                                                                                Are you completely sure you don't have a hardware failure or marginal operation?

                                                                                                Cooling fan problem or cooling fan control problem?

                                                                                                Can you run Memtest86+ overnight without error?

                                                                                                Can you run a full disk check including surface scan without error?

                                                                                                (And have you got a backup of all your work?!)


                                                                                                I re-booted the i7...

                                                                                                Now, one thing I have failed to mention in all of this concerns Windoze booting up. I didn't mention this because, well, now that I think about it, I have, but I haven't mentioned this concern because doing a Windoze repair install sux in the extreme. And doing a clean install sux even more.


                                                                                                I gave up with that silliness long ago. A partial fix was using ghosting to quickly roll back to an earlier known good state. A more comprehensive fix was in moving off Windows in the first place!


                                                                                                When the Windoze cylon splash screen is doing its thing, ... I call it "cylon" because of the blue progress indicator. ;)


                                                                                                Good giggle. Never drew that association before! :-)

                                                                                                Wait, didn't they wipe us out...


                                                                                                ... the i7 ran for 26+ hours continuously without any apparent "side affect", without BOINC running. I have given my reason to suspect Windoze and with the event this morning, it gives me cause to suspect BOINC and/or Firefox. Or is it possible to be something conflictual with all 3 running concurrent?...


                                                                                                If you have marginal hardware operation, they could be falsely implicated just by merely being the most often present applications. You must eliminate all possibility that you might be suffering hardware problems. (Oooops... Mustn't fall into the Cylon-speak!)

                                                                                                The next suspect is then whether you are suffering any malware or anti-virus side effects...


                                                                                                Keep on BOINCing...! :) (only my Linux box is fulfilling that... something to be said about running Linux...)


                                                                                                Linux can run well even on old hardware, but even Linux cannot always survive hardware failure.


                                                                                                Hope of help.

                                                                                                Happy cruinchin',
                                                                                                And Good Luck,

                                                                                                Martin
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                                                                                                Message 107750 - Posted 12 Nov 2010 12:13:46 UTC - in response to Message 107732.

                                                                                                  Greetings everyone,

                                                                                                  *** UPDATE ***

                                                                                                  I was checking things out in Task manager when I noticed that my BOINC tray icon was still in the tray. I also watched as it and the icon for a utility called TThrottle switched from normal to all black, to normal, to all black, etc. (NOTE: those 2 are related in that TThrottle is a regulator for BOINC to help keep CPU temps to a minimum). Firefox would not restart, I kept getting a few different error messages. One was something about a .DRV file not being a "valid image" and another was a cryptic message that the "application failed to initialize properly...".


                                                                                                  Stop running the TThrottle program during your testing, it could be the culprit and you wouldn't even know it. Run just the basic stuff, then one by one add in the additional programs. I have several i7 machines that run Firefox, Boinc with Einstein, and do not see any of your problems. All of my machines are home built and with mostly used components with the exception of cpu, memory and motherboard. I think you need to get back to the basics and start over from there. Does that mean a fresh Windows install, no not right now, but it does mean to stop all add on programs for right now and see if things go okay. Do the testing that ML1 suggests and if everything tests out ok then get rid of TThrottle, or just stop it from running, go back to IE for now, etc, etc. ALSO MAKE SURE you have done ALL the windows updates! I know some are a pain and seem to do more harm then good but right now you have nothing to lose, your current setup won't work and you are stuck in drydock!!

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                                                                                                  Message 107769 - Posted 12 Nov 2010 22:46:59 UTC

                                                                                                    Greetings everyone,

                                                                                                    @ Mikey and Martin: I am in the process of running some hardware tests. I downloaded an ISO called Ultimate Boot CD and burned it to disk. It has a lot of great stuff on it. It runs on a Linux kernel and looks a LOT like the old M$-DOG screen displays of yesteryear.

                                                                                                    To be honest with you guys, and I know you're just trying to help and I really appreciate it but, I seriously do not believe that I am having any kind of hardware problem. But, I will do some hardware testing anyway.

                                                                                                    *** UPDATE ***
                                                                                                    I already ran some diagnostics on my boot HDD. It came back clean as a whistle. It had better, everything in the i7 except the case and PSU is barely 6 months old. The CD has a few CPU stress testing utilities that I will use to make sure the CPU is fine. I ran memtest86 on the i7 over night, 9 minutes shy of 11 hours total. No errors at all. :) I didn't have a lot of time to do more exploring on the CD, I needed to get ready for work, but I'm sure there are more hardware diagnostic/testing programs on that CD.

                                                                                                    I still seriously believe that when I re-attached to Einstein, something got whacked upside the head causing me these headaches, and it wasn't me getting whacked. ;) And, I do not believe in coincidence. I do not believe that some piece of hardware decided to start heading south at the same time I re-attached to Einstein. The probability of that happening is just to danged low, in my opinion.

                                                                                                    Some reasoning behind my beliefs:
                                                                                                    Before all this started happening, the only hardware problem I knew of was my video card. It has since been changed and the problems no longer exist. The i7 ran for 30+ days, the longest I have ever seen a Windoze PC go without a re-boot, until I received an update from MS that required a re-boot. We know, most re-boots are caused by MS and their updates. SETI was crunching 24/7. I maintained an average 200+ WUs in my cache at all times. NOT a single problem.

                                                                                                    BOINC has not been doing any crunching for a few days now and every time the i7 runs with it running, after 8 to 10 hours the crap starts happening. When BOINC is NOT running at all, the i7 runs without a problem, for longer than 24 hours. It's only when BOINC runs that the problem appears. I didn't have any problems with BOINC or in general until I re-attached to Einstein.

                                                                                                    As mentioned yesterday, I suspect that something in Windoze has been corrupted. I also mentioned the symptom that is the cause of my suspicion. We'll see what happens when I run more hardware tests this week end.

                                                                                                    Keep on BOINCing...! :)

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                                                                                                    Message 107772 - Posted 13 Nov 2010 7:37:43 UTC

                                                                                                      My 2 machines with the 9 year old XP Pro OS wanted to give you all a "BAH" and an "Oy Vey" and they said that they don't mind sharing this room with the W7 but their RAC speaks for themselves.


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                                                                                                      Message 107774 - Posted 13 Nov 2010 11:52:24 UTC - in response to Message 107769.

                                                                                                        Greetings everyone,

                                                                                                        @ Mikey and Martin: I am in the process of running some hardware tests. I downloaded an ISO called Ultimate Boot CD and burned it to disk. It has a lot of great stuff on it. It runs on a Linux kernel and looks a LOT like the old M$-DOG screen displays of yesteryear.

                                                                                                        To be honest with you guys, and I know you're just trying to help and I really appreciate it but, I seriously do not believe that I am having any kind of hardware problem. But, I will do some hardware testing anyway.

                                                                                                        *** UPDATE ***
                                                                                                        I already ran some diagnostics on my boot HDD. It came back clean as a whistle. It had better, everything in the i7 except the case and PSU is barely 6 months old. The CD has a few CPU stress testing utilities that I will use to make sure the CPU is fine. I ran memtest86 on the i7 over night, 9 minutes shy of 11 hours total. No errors at all. :) I didn't have a lot of time to do more exploring on the CD, I needed to get ready for work, but I'm sure there are more hardware diagnostic/testing programs on that CD.

                                                                                                        I still seriously believe that when I re-attached to Einstein, something got whacked upside the head causing me these headaches, and it wasn't me getting whacked. ;) And, I do not believe in coincidence. I do not believe that some piece of hardware decided to start heading south at the same time I re-attached to Einstein. The probability of that happening is just to danged low, in my opinion.

                                                                                                        Some reasoning behind my beliefs:
                                                                                                        Before all this started happening, the only hardware problem I knew of was my video card. It has since been changed and the problems no longer exist. The i7 ran for 30+ days, the longest I have ever seen a Windoze PC go without a re-boot, until I received an update from MS that required a re-boot. We know, most re-boots are caused by MS and their updates. SETI was crunching 24/7. I maintained an average 200+ WUs in my cache at all times. NOT a single problem.

                                                                                                        BOINC has not been doing any crunching for a few days now and every time the i7 runs with it running, after 8 to 10 hours the crap starts happening. When BOINC is NOT running at all, the i7 runs without a problem, for longer than 24 hours. It's only when BOINC runs that the problem appears. I didn't have any problems with BOINC or in general until I re-attached to Einstein.

                                                                                                        As mentioned yesterday, I suspect that something in Windoze has been corrupted. I also mentioned the symptom that is the cause of my suspicion. We'll see what happens when I run more hardware tests this week end.

                                                                                                        Keep on BOINCing...! :)


                                                                                                        I do not think it is hardware related either but if you don't check and it is you will have wasted alot of time. It is kind of like the Doctor that uses his stethoscope to see if your heart is still beating when he can see that you are breathing, he KNOWS you heart is working because it stops AFTER your breathing as you die, but he does it anyway.

                                                                                                        I just checked your latest problem units and the error code is -120, I checked a wiki and it says the problem is:
                                                                                                        ERR_RSA_FAILED -120 RSA key check failed for file RSA key check failed for a file

                                                                                                        Now I have no idea what that means but do you run this under your Admin login account or a different account? If a different account maybe the permissions aren't what Einstein is looking for? When you installed Boinc did you chose the default options or did you customize them? When I do it I always uncheck 'use the screensaver' and then check to 'let anyone manage Boinc' but other than that I use the defaults? You did not chose a 'service' install by chance did you?

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                                                                                                        Message 107783 - Posted 13 Nov 2010 14:19:08 UTC - in response to Message 107774.

                                                                                                          -[ snip ]-


                                                                                                          I do not think it is hardware related either but if you don't check and it is you will have wasted alot of time. It is kind of like the Doctor that uses his stethoscope to see if your heart is still beating when he can see that you are breathing, he KNOWS you heart is working because it stops AFTER your breathing as you die, but he does it anyway.

                                                                                                          I just checked your latest problem units and the error code is -120, I checked a wiki and it says the problem is:
                                                                                                          ERR_RSA_FAILED -120 RSA key check failed for file RSA key check failed for a file

                                                                                                          Now I have no idea what that means but do you run this under your Admin login account or a different account? If a different account maybe the permissions aren't what Einstein is looking for? When you installed Boinc did you chose the default options or did you customize them? When I do it I always uncheck 'use the screensaver' and then check to 'let anyone manage Boinc' but other than that I use the defaults? You did not chose a 'service' install by chance did you?

                                                                                                          Greetings Mikey,

                                                                                                          No, I run under a different account that has some admin rights. It doesn't have full admin. I have always run Windoze that way. That error definition you mentioned lends credence to my suspicion that Windoze is corrupted some how, again. Perhaps another good idea would be to run the i7, with BOINC running, on the admin account to see what happens. Maybe my personal account got hosed somehow. Makes sense to me, how 'bout you? I'll do it just for GP.

                                                                                                          When I install BOINC it is with the default values. Maybe I should use "Custom" since I have to get rid of the screen saver every time. I did not know I could install without the screen saver enabled. I don't run a screen saver. No need to with todays technology. :)

                                                                                                          I don't do the service install, never have. I believe I read on the SETI forum something about it causing people headaches when installed as a service.

                                                                                                          Ok, so it's been running, once again, for 26 hours without so much as a sneeze. Let's see what running on the admin account does... :)

                                                                                                          Thanks for the added info and idea Mikey! :)

                                                                                                          Keep on BOINCing...! :)

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                                                                                                          Message 107784 - Posted 13 Nov 2010 15:10:18 UTC

                                                                                                            Greetings everyone,

                                                                                                            ALLLLLLL RIGHTY THEN...

                                                                                                            This is really strange! Running on the admin account is like running Windoze for the very first time. But, BOINC is running, so we'll see what happens.

                                                                                                            I made a discovery I had forgotten about, here on Einstein, when I went to log into my account. I inadvertently used an alternate e-mail address, one that I don't use for anything BOINC, and found a fake account created, with that e-mail address, on Oct 28, 2005. I discovered it, long ago, and somehow gained access to it and changed the password which still works.

                                                                                                            I remember, years ago, when I found several fake BOINC project accounts created by the same person who created the one here using that e-mail address. I had forgotten all about those accounts, long ago.

                                                                                                            Anyway, let's see how this i7 fairs while running on the admin account.

                                                                                                            Keep on BOINCing...! :)

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                                                                                                            Message 107789 - Posted 13 Nov 2010 16:57:06 UTC

                                                                                                              Last modified: 13 Nov 2010 16:58:29 UTC

                                                                                                              Just to add to this, with ref my entire cache twice being 'blown-up; by computation- errors (http://einstein.phys.uwm.edu/forum_thread.php?id=8540), after rebooting to satisfy AVG installation/update, + also ensuring enough HDD space after a lot of video-recording (I had 200MB free at 1 point), things this end too now appear a bit more stable.

                                                                                                              Basically if you need to reboot, do so... I know, it's painful!

                                                                                                              Profile Siran d'Vel'nahr
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                                                                                                              Message 107801 - Posted 14 Nov 2010 10:45:00 UTC

                                                                                                                Last modified: 14 Nov 2010 10:59:54 UTC

                                                                                                                Greetings everyone,

                                                                                                                *** UPDATE ***

                                                                                                                Well, yesterday's test was a bust. After running on the admin account, with BOINC and even BOINC doing some VP WUs, after just over 7 hours, the crap started happening. At which point, I shut down all programs and shut down the i7, while I went to the store.

                                                                                                                When I got back I fired up the i7 and let it boot into my personal account. I allowed BOINC to finish the last 3 "good" VP WUs, which took all of about 3 minutes. They were uploaded and all 50 reported. I then shut down BOINC and grabbed my "Ultimate Boot CD" CD.

                                                                                                                As you know, from an update the other day, memory checks out fine and the boot HDD checked out fine. I ran a "torture test" CPU stress program and let it complete. It reported the 4 cores error free.

                                                                                                                I do believe that my next course of action will be to re-install BOINC. I'm not sure if I have to do an uninstall/clean install or a repair install. I guess I am about to find out.

                                                                                                                My last course of action will be to do a Windoze repair install or go all out and do a clean install. At this point, I'm thinking repair because I plan on installing a 64 bit OS sometime in the new year anyway. I just need this thing to hang in there until I do.

                                                                                                                Keep on BOINCing...! :)

                                                                                                                [edit]
                                                                                                                I forgot to mention that the i7 has been running just fine, with only Firefox running, for 11 hours now. Although, task manager still reports that the boinctray.exe process is still running. It did this before, too. Unless that process does even without the tray icon being on the tray...
                                                                                                                [/edit]
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                                                                                                                Message 107805 - Posted 14 Nov 2010 11:46:54 UTC - in response to Message 107801.

                                                                                                                  Greetings everyone,

                                                                                                                  *** UPDATE ***

                                                                                                                  Well, yesterday's test was a bust. After running on the admin account, with BOINC and even BOINC doing some VP WUs, after just over 7 hours, the crap started happening. At which point, I shut down all programs and shut down the i7, while I went to the store.


                                                                                                                  Have you checked out the error log yet? It is under Control Panel, System and Security, then under Administrative Tools you will see Event Viewer, click on it! You will see a ton of things in the top box, then if you click on each one you can see details in the box below. You are looking for problems around the time your pc crashed.

                                                                                                                  I forgot to mention that the i7 has been running just fine, with only Firefox running, for 11 hours now. Although, task manager still reports that the boinctray.exe process is still running. It did this before, too. Unless that process does even without the tray icon being on the tray...


                                                                                                                  Mine does the same thing and when I notice it I close it, but it does not seem to make any difference if Boinc is not running. I do NOT close when Boinc is running though.

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                                                                                                                  Message 107806 - Posted 14 Nov 2010 12:18:32 UTC - in response to Message 107801.

                                                                                                                    Although, task manager still reports that the boinctray.exe process is still running. It did this before, too. Unless that process does even without the tray icon being on the tray...

                                                                                                                    The name of that task is misleading. It has nothing to do with the system tray (icon). It simply checks for keyboard and mouse activity in case that boinc is to crunch only when the host is idle.

                                                                                                                    Gruß,
                                                                                                                    Gundolf

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                                                                                                                    Message 107807 - Posted 14 Nov 2010 12:36:45 UTC - in response to Message 107806.

                                                                                                                      Although, task manager still reports that the boinctray.exe process is still running. It did this before, too. Unless that process does even without the tray icon being on the tray...

                                                                                                                      The name of that task is misleading. It has nothing to do with the system tray (icon). It simply checks for keyboard and mouse activity in case that boinc is to crunch only when the host is idle.

                                                                                                                      Gruß,
                                                                                                                      Gundolf

                                                                                                                      The icon you see is associated with the BOINC Manager application - and again the Manager is not essential to BOINC's computations.

                                                                                                                      Profile Siran d'Vel'nahr
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                                                                                                                      Message 107808 - Posted 14 Nov 2010 12:41:57 UTC - in response to Message 107805.

                                                                                                                        -[ snip ]-


                                                                                                                        Have you checked out the error log yet? It is under Control Panel, System and Security, then under Administrative Tools you will see Event Viewer, click on it! You will see a ton of things in the top box, then if you click on each one you can see details in the box below. You are looking for problems around the time your pc crashed.

                                                                                                                        -[ snip ]-
                                                                                                                        -[ snip ]-

                                                                                                                        Greetings Mikey,

                                                                                                                        I looked at Event viewer/System and the last error reported was on Nov 9, 2010. No errors or warnings for yesterday or today. A few warnings scattered between yesterday and Oct 9. I'm wondering if whatever the problem is is not getting picked up by the log. (see update below)


                                                                                                                        *** UPDATE ***

                                                                                                                        I did a repair install of BOINC. I did not re-boot the i7, it had been running for 11 hours, just allowed BOINC to start. No WU processing involved this time. In less than an hour the crap hit again. So, I'm thinking it is not BOINC. I'm thinking that the only way to rid the i7 of this crap is to do a repair install of Windoze. Of course, the ultimate remedy would be to do a clean install. That is such a pain, so is the repair just to a lesser degree.

                                                                                                                        I already have all my really important files and stuff backed up to my second hard drive, just in case something goes south during re-install. Oh, I better grab my bookmarks and such for Firefox too. Forgot about that...

                                                                                                                        So, I will be spending the next few hours on the re-install and then re-configuration of everything. Not to mention all the updates that Windoze is going to demand to do too. UGH! :(

                                                                                                                        I do believe I have exhausted every possible avenue to fix this. In the end, I still believe that Windoze is corrupted. I still cannot get over the fact that this all started just after I re-attached to Einstein. But, since I had a multitude of VP WUs with computation errors yesterday, Einstein cannot be at fault. At least not directly. Perhaps something glitched during the re-attachment process and it would have happened with any project I would have attached to at that time.

                                                                                                                        Well, off to Windoze installation H E double hockey sticks... :(

                                                                                                                        Keep on BOINCing...! :)

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                                                                                                                        Message 107809 - Posted 14 Nov 2010 14:07:23 UTC

                                                                                                                          Greetings everyone,

                                                                                                                          *** UPDATE ***

                                                                                                                          Ok, supposedly the Windoze repair install has finished. I did see a weird thing happen where an nVidia driver was un-installed during the Win install. The un-install asked for a reboot, I click "No".

                                                                                                                          Now, for the past 20 minutes I have been sitting on a screen with the WinXP logo and copyright, sitting here "Please wait..."-ing, still. I believe Windoze has stalled, at this point. I'm thinking I have to hit the reset button on the i7, now. Hopefully, Windoze will recover...

                                                                                                                          Keep on BOINCing...! :)

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                                                                                                                          Message 107826 - Posted 15 Nov 2010 12:05:54 UTC - in response to Message 107809.

                                                                                                                            Greetings everyone,

                                                                                                                            *** UPDATE ***

                                                                                                                            Ok, supposedly the Windoze repair install has finished. I did see a weird thing happen where an nVidia driver was un-installed during the Win install. The un-install asked for a reboot, I click "No".

                                                                                                                            Now, for the past 20 minutes I have been sitting on a screen with the WinXP logo and copyright, sitting here "Please wait..."-ing, still. I believe Windoze has stalled, at this point. I'm thinking I have to hit the reset button on the i7, now. Hopefully, Windoze will recover...

                                                                                                                            Keep on BOINCing...! :)


                                                                                                                            You MUST click YES to reboot or the changes cannot be made to the OS!

                                                                                                                            Yes if it is 'hung' just push the off button and hold it down until the machine powers off, then tap it again, after about a slow count to 10, and the machine should power back on just fine.

                                                                                                                            Profile Siran d'Vel'nahr
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                                                                                                                            Message 107840 - Posted 15 Nov 2010 19:30:33 UTC - in response to Message 107826.

                                                                                                                              Greetings everyone,

                                                                                                                              *** UPDATE ***

                                                                                                                              Ok, supposedly the Windoze repair install has finished. I did see a weird thing happen where an nVidia driver was un-installed during the Win install. The un-install asked for a reboot, I click "No".

                                                                                                                              Now, for the past 20 minutes I have been sitting on a screen with the WinXP logo and copyright, sitting here "Please wait..."-ing, still. I believe Windoze has stalled, at this point. I'm thinking I have to hit the reset button on the i7, now. Hopefully, Windoze will recover...

                                                                                                                              Keep on BOINCing...! :)


                                                                                                                              You MUST click YES to reboot or the changes cannot be made to the OS!

                                                                                                                              Yes if it is 'hung' just push the off button and hold it down until the machine powers off, then tap it again, after about a slow count to 10, and the machine should power back on just fine.

                                                                                                                              Greetings Mikey,

                                                                                                                              You're saying that I should go ahead and let the i7 re-boot even during the WinXP install? It was the nVIDIA un-installer asking for a re-boot, not Windoze. I let Windoze re-boot after the install, naturally. :)

                                                                                                                              Keep on BOINCing...! :)

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                                                                                                                              Profile Matt Giwer
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                                                                                                                              Message 107848 - Posted 16 Nov 2010 11:50:14 UTC - in response to Message 107625.

                                                                                                                                Greetings Einstein Crunchers,

                                                                                                                                Last month, October, I decided to re-attache to Einstein@home since SETI@Home is going through, what I would like to call, a spurt of growth. Many of you know that SETI is in the process of receiving 2 new servers to better serve the project and the thousands of volunteers faithfully crunching SETI WUs.

                                                                                                                                Not long after I started crunching Einstein on my i7 PC, I noticed some strange anomalous behavior. I would see WUs that were "Waiting for memory". I would also notice that after some time, I would see that text was missing from things like web pages and even things on the i7 such as the Windows start button would no longer say "Start" and tabs in my browser and HTML editor would also be blank. When shutting down a program, it would take a couple minutes for the window to go away. Programs would no longer start. BOINC would no longer make a connection to localhost after restarting it. The i7 re-booted all on its own once. I immediately suspected Einstein.

                                                                                                                                Now, lets go back in time to May (I believe it was) when I built this i7 PC. I noticed strange things happening with my video display. My mouse cursor would suddenly jump from one point to another across the screen. Programs, like my HTML editor, would auto scroll while I would be doing my coding. When on a website, I would be reading a page and suddenly be transported back a page or 2 as if I hit the back button, which I hadn't. I suspected that there was something flakey about my new PCI-E video card. I lived with it for several months.

                                                                                                                                When I saw the problems I started having, when starting Einstein again, I figured, even though I still suspected that Einstein was at the root of the current problems, that my video card was getting worse. So, a couple days ago, I bought a new one and installed it. The problems I was seeing, before Einstein, went away. Good call on that one, the "old" card was indeed flakey. But, I was still observing the problems that manifested after starting Einstein again. My suspicion of Einstein was getting greater.

                                                                                                                                I mentioned these problems in another thread, here, and a few members gave me some suggestions to try to alleviate my problems. A few of them had no affect, but, I did get a definitive explanation for my problem. It was indeed Einstein that was the cause.

                                                                                                                                But, my i7 was also at fault, sort of. I'm not running a 64 bit OS, so WinXP Pro is not seeing all of my 4GB of RAM. Einstein uses a great deal of RAM, due to the size of the WUs, and perhaps other factors as well. Since my 32 bit OS is only seeing 3GB of RAM and 8 Einstein WUs are taking up 2 of those GBs, the i7 was left with 1GB for everything else including BOINC.

                                                                                                                                And now for the apology: About 45 minutes ago, give or take, I checked on the i7 and BOINC. You see, after about 8 to 10 hours of continuous running, BOINC would start creating havoc with the i7 and I would have to re-boot the PC. When I checked on the progress of BOINC, I saw that 175 WUs were reporting "Computational error"(s). I had 5 completed WUs waiting to report. Suffice to say, there probably are many of you out there waiting for the results of those 175 WUs, and for that I do apologize.

                                                                                                                                For the time being, I have resigned myself not to run Einstein. As a matter of fact, BOINC is sitting idle right now with nothing to do. I do plan on upgrading to a 64 bit OS (WinXP Pro, not Win7). I may even decide to double my RAM to 8GB. Maybe then I will start crunching Einstein again. But, right now, I do not want what happened this morning to happen again. It is NOT fair to the rest of you waiting for results so you can get the credit for the work you have already done.

                                                                                                                                My thanks go out to Mikey, Gundolf and DanNeely for the help they gave me. I really appreciate it! :)

                                                                                                                                And now, it's time to do my normal routine(s), now that the i7 is free to do my bidding, once again. ;)

                                                                                                                                Have a great day, everyone! :)

                                                                                                                                Keep on BOINCing...! :)


                                                                                                                                I am running E@H on a AMD Phenom Quad with 4GB under Fedora 11 64bit and no problems whatsoever. That machine also runs my TV (home entertainment center to be pretentious) which is admittedly a low stress function but no problems. I have also done a full full test with the latest threaded Povray rendering of a 1200 frame animation and no problem. The diff between 32 and 64 bit is 3.2 GB to 4BG. Might be worth writing home about but not to assign blame.

                                                                                                                                I did have a problem running it on a machine with a 32bit Fedora 10 with 0.5GB RAM and calculated it was trying to use about 1.2GB. No problem now that it is stand alone without graphics doing nothing but keeping my RAC up. Also E@H is unnoticeable on an Athlon II x4 with 6GB but the L3 cache on the Phenom may obviate the difference in RAM.

                                                                                                                                I was having bad WU problems a while back and was told that setting the option to suspend processing at the 80% level in options worked for him. It worked for me too. No more bad work units. I had the problem on both the Phenom and Athlon machines so it was not a RAM issue.

                                                                                                                                I have no experience with what an i7 requires but I doubt it places greater burdens on the rest of the hardware simply out of good design policy. There should be chips to make more of what an i7 can do but should not be necessary for system pricing reasons. The main reason is the Intel CPUs start at about $100 more than AMD and if cheaper support chips were not permitted without degradation of performance Intel based machines would price themselves out of most markets.

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                                                                                                                                Message 107849 - Posted 16 Nov 2010 11:58:46 UTC - in response to Message 107628.

                                                                                                                                  Another thing that kinda disturbs me is the amount of storage Einstein requires and is currently using. When I had a full compliment of WUs, about 215 or so, Einstein took up almost 2 GB of space. Granted, I have a 500 GB drive, but it's the fact that with all the WUs gone, Einstein is still taking over .5 GB.


                                                                                                                                  You now have a modern machine. You must get over the thinking that arose with 40GB drives. It is not easy to get over but we all have to do it.

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                                                                                                                                  Message 107850 - Posted 16 Nov 2010 12:18:31 UTC - in response to Message 107724.

                                                                                                                                    My feeling is that most of the symptoms you're seeing, including the problem the BOINC Manager has communicating with the client, are due to this start-up disk access for Einsten tasks. And the disk access demands of your 8 i7 cores at startup will be even more severe than the demands of my 8 E5320 cores

                                                                                                                                    This seemingly unproductive period during Einstein execution has troubled me for a long time. I just timed a startup on my E5620 host (four cores running HT, so 8 virtual CPU's). It took almost three minutes from the time it started running the aps before it reached the "useful" phase when the enormous I/O, appreciable idle time, and significant CPU time charged to System went away and normal computing began. With the flavor of WU currently on my host, Process Explorer showed just over 3 Gigabytes of I/O Read to that point. It appears that this number goes up as the frequency explored by the WU goes up--so this effect keeps getting worse as we press on to higher and higher frequencies.

                                                                                                                                    I believe I've noticed that the actual wall clock time required can be materially increased by one's Antivirus application. If your AV makes it easy to pause protection, it might amuse you to compare this startup time with and without. I'm running Kaspersky on this host, and when I tried the comparison just now, there was little difference--perhaps ten or twenty percent without, and that possibly really an artifact of longer time since boot rather than really an AV side effect. Still, in the past on another host I think I've seen a much larger effect with other AV programs--probably eSet NOD32 and possibly Norton of some years ago.


                                                                                                                                    From what I have read those four cores producing 8 virtual cores actually operate on the level of six real cores. That is why I opted for two refurbed AMD four cores for the same price and a lot more backup flexibility and functionality.

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                                                                                                                                    Message 107854 - Posted 16 Nov 2010 13:14:34 UTC - in response to Message 107840.

                                                                                                                                      Greetings everyone,

                                                                                                                                      *** UPDATE ***

                                                                                                                                      Ok, supposedly the Windoze repair install has finished. I did see a weird thing happen where an nVidia driver was un-installed during the Win install. The un-install asked for a reboot, I click "No".

                                                                                                                                      Now, for the past 20 minutes I have been sitting on a screen with the WinXP logo and copyright, sitting here "Please wait..."-ing, still. I believe Windoze has stalled, at this point. I'm thinking I have to hit the reset button on the i7, now. Hopefully, Windoze will recover...

                                                                                                                                      Keep on BOINCing...! :)


                                                                                                                                      You MUST click YES to reboot or the changes cannot be made to the OS!

                                                                                                                                      Yes if it is 'hung' just push the off button and hold it down until the machine powers off, then tap it again, after about a slow count to 10, and the machine should power back on just fine.

                                                                                                                                      Greetings Mikey,

                                                                                                                                      You're saying that I should go ahead and let the i7 re-boot even during the WinXP install? It was the nVIDIA un-installer asking for a re-boot, not Windoze. I let Windoze re-boot after the install, naturally. :)

                                                                                                                                      Keep on BOINCing...! :)


                                                                                                                                      I am not sure, but yes probably, if it wants to reboot, during the Windows install process, I always let it. It should pick up where it left off when it restarts.

                                                                                                                                      Have you tried downloading Linux and running Boinc under it? I am NOT talking about a Linux install but booting off the Linux disk and doing it 'live'. If you put Boinc on a usb stick you will not be messing with the hard drive and if Boinc runs for 24 hours you KNOW it is your Windows installation that is the problem.

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                                                                                                                                      Message 107865 - Posted 16 Nov 2010 19:50:21 UTC

                                                                                                                                        Last modified: 16 Nov 2010 19:52:41 UTC

                                                                                                                                        All very curious indeed...

                                                                                                                                        Assuming that your system has passed ok all of:

                                                                                                                                        Memtest86+ full set of tests for a few passes;
                                                                                                                                        GIMPS mprime86 'torture test';
                                                                                                                                        And that your disks check out ok for a disk surface scan and filesystem check...


                                                                                                                                        That should show that the hardware is ok.

                                                                                                                                        A last ditch test is to run a graphics display test (or just play a high fps video game) to make sure your graphics card is ok.


                                                                                                                                        The only things to suggest next are:

                                                                                                                                        Is your system overheating?

                                                                                                                                        Do you have mains power problems?

                                                                                                                                        Can you run Boinc overnight with the network PHYSICALLY DISCONNECTED (unplugged) and with all anti-virus disabled and with no 'screen savers' running?


                                                                                                                                        If it passes that, then that's interesting.

                                                                                                                                        If it fails, then...

                                                                                                                                        The only way to eliminate whether it's Windows or the hardware is to try a different OS on that system. Linux even?

                                                                                                                                        Meanwhile, if there were problems with Boinc and E@H, then I'm sure there would be many more howls than just yourself.


                                                                                                                                        The 8 - 10 hours before failure is suspicious... Is that the time your cat settles on the PC to keep itself warm for a snooze?!

                                                                                                                                        Or more seriously, is that when other household equipment is stirred to life and electrical noise?


                                                                                                                                        Has your Windows system got a virus/trojan/malware that is waking up every few hours to do some dirty deed?


                                                                                                                                        Let us know what you find!

                                                                                                                                        Good luck,
                                                                                                                                        Martin
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                                                                                                                                        Message 107880 - Posted 17 Nov 2010 9:46:24 UTC - in response to Message 107865.

                                                                                                                                          ...
                                                                                                                                          The only way to eliminate whether it's Windows or the hardware is to try a different OS on that system. Linux even?...
                                                                                                                                          Good luck,
                                                                                                                                          Martin


                                                                                                                                          I know flame wars are sort of fun but it is not my intention to start one. I started with MS-DOS 3.0 and it was not until Win-98 SP2 that I threw in the towel.

                                                                                                                                          I merely wish to observe when it comes to Windows it is all a matter of guess work and experience whereas in linux it is open to anyone to analyze the problem. Talk about virus protection on Windows? Then you have to have not only installed it but sussed out how it works in detail and what that means. It is not that way with linux.

                                                                                                                                          Not meaning to denigrate anyone not many people who use Windows really know what they are using or doing. It is mainly because of proprietary software that will not tell what it is doing. Very few can reverse engineer proprietary software to the point of being about to figure out what it is really doing.

                                                                                                                                          Gamers should look into Codeweavers Crossover to see if their games can be run on linux or resign themselves to eternal problems with Windows. OR decide to make the effort to learn enough about PCs and software to really understand what all the MS stuff is really doing.

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                                                                                                                                          Profile Siran d'Vel'nahr
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                                                                                                                                          Message 107887 - Posted 17 Nov 2010 11:58:32 UTC - in response to Message 107854.

                                                                                                                                            -[ snip ]-
                                                                                                                                            -[ snip ]-

                                                                                                                                            Greetings Mikey,

                                                                                                                                            You're saying that I should go ahead and let the i7 re-boot even during the WinXP install? It was the nVIDIA un-installer asking for a re-boot, not Windoze. I let Windoze re-boot after the install, naturally. :)

                                                                                                                                            Keep on BOINCing...! :)


                                                                                                                                            I am not sure, but yes probably, if it wants to reboot, during the Windows install process, I always let it. It should pick up where it left off when it restarts.

                                                                                                                                            Have you tried downloading Linux and running Boinc under it? I am NOT talking about a Linux install but booting off the Linux disk and doing it 'live'. If you put Boinc on a usb stick you will not be messing with the hard drive and if Boinc runs for 24 hours you KNOW it is your Windows installation that is the problem.

                                                                                                                                            Greetings Mikey,

                                                                                                                                            The previous "repair" install did not seem to help. The i7 ran for about 11 hours, without BOINC, without any problems. I started BOINC and I don't think it was 2 hours later when my Windoze color scheme changed to something looking like Windoze 98. Everything was that beige color.

                                                                                                                                            I shut down BOINC and was going to re-boot. Somewhere in the Windows shutdown process an error message popped up saying something about some application could not write to a section of memory. So, I booted into my "Ultimate Boot CD" CD and ran a memory checker that was made by, none other than, Micro$oft. I ran the extended tests. Some of the tests that are standard run with cache turned off in the extended tests. I now see why cache is so important. Those tests were excruciatingly slow to run. At the end of it all, no errors were found, once again, with my RAM.

                                                                                                                                            I know that when an application writes data, to be used, to RAM that that section of RAM is locked so that the data cannot be overwritten by another application. Now, what I'm not sure about is this: Is the application responsible for locking and unlocking the RAM, or is that the responsibility of Windoze? I'm thinking that it is the OS that is responsible. Only makes sense to me since the OS is responsible for allocating resources. Another thought on that would be that the application should be responsible for contacting the OS saying,"Hey, OS, I'm done with the RAM now."

                                                                                                                                            Anyway, since I don't have to work today, I'm going to attempt another "repair" install and use your suggestion about the re-boot after the video driver uninstall. If that doesn't fix this problem, then I'm going to do a clean install. Hopefully Windoze install will fully re-format the HDD before installing the OS, again.

                                                                                                                                            About your response over at VP, perhaps I will just re-attache to the projects. Makes sense that something in the BOINC folder could be of a corruptible nature. I'd hate to get the i7 going again, with a fresh install, only to have the problem re-appear.

                                                                                                                                            My last task will be to save up my pennies and nickles and order Win7 Pro 64 bit. This, much sooner than I would normally do with a newly released upgraded Windoze OS. I usually wait until after SP2 is out, well, at least SP1.

                                                                                                                                            Thanks Mikey! :)

                                                                                                                                            Keep on BOINCing...! :)

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                                                                                                                                            Message 107888 - Posted 17 Nov 2010 12:56:49 UTC - in response to Message 107865.

                                                                                                                                              All very curious indeed...

                                                                                                                                              Assuming that your system has passed ok all of:

                                                                                                                                              Memtest86+ full set of tests for a few passes;
                                                                                                                                              GIMPS mprime86 'torture test';
                                                                                                                                              And that your disks check out ok for a disk surface scan and filesystem check...

                                                                                                                                              I ran memtest86 over night, no errors reported. I ran a CPU torture test from my "Ultimate Boot CD" CD, the CPU passed with highest honors. I ran a HDD diagnostics and the boot drive checked out with no problems.

                                                                                                                                              That should show that the hardware is ok.

                                                                                                                                              A last ditch test is to run a graphics display test (or just play a high fps video game) to make sure your graphics card is ok.

                                                                                                                                              I did run a diagnostics that checked both RAM and video RAM. Video checked out just fine. Once a week I am in an online chat called IMVU. It is a VR video chat with constant video changes. It runs just fine, without BOINC running. 2 weeks ago I had it do the same in that I would lose text and things would start heading south, with BOINC running. Ever try to chat when you cannot see the text you are typing?

                                                                                                                                              The only things to suggest next are:

                                                                                                                                              Is your system overheating?

                                                                                                                                              No overheating problem once I installed my H50 Corsair cooling system.


                                                                                                                                              Do you have mains power problems?

                                                                                                                                              No problems with power.


                                                                                                                                              Can you run Boinc overnight with the network PHYSICALLY DISCONNECTED (unplugged) and with all anti-virus disabled and with no 'screen savers' running?


                                                                                                                                              If it passes that, then that's interesting.

                                                                                                                                              If it fails, then...

                                                                                                                                              I have never run BOINC that way since switching from dial up to broadband years ago. I don't run screen savers. I'm not sure running BOINC in this manner would help since the only thing it is doing is communicating with project server(s). No crunching at this point.


                                                                                                                                              The only way to eliminate whether it's Windows or the hardware is to try a different OS on that system. Linux even?

                                                                                                                                              I can and have dual-booted the i7 with Windoze and Kubuntu 64 bit. Perhaps that's not a bad idea, but that will only show that there is nothing wrong with my hardware. Worth a try though...


                                                                                                                                              Meanwhile, if there were problems with Boinc and E@H, then I'm sure there would be many more howls than just yourself.

                                                                                                                                              I do not believe that there is a problem with BOINC or even Einstein. I believe that whatever caused the problems I am having would have happened whether I was re-attaching to Einstein or attaching to another project at that same moment.


                                                                                                                                              The 8 - 10 hours before failure is suspicious... Is that the time your cat settles on the PC to keep itself warm for a snooze?!

                                                                                                                                              No cat involved, don't have one. Don't even want one. Don't like them. Don't tell Mark over at SETI I said this. ;) By the way, the current up time is 1 day, 11 hours and 23 minutes. Without BOINC running.


                                                                                                                                              Or more seriously, is that when other household equipment is stirred to life and electrical noise?

                                                                                                                                              The only thing that kicks in, periodically, is the furnace downstairs. That has never been a problem.


                                                                                                                                              Has your Windows system got a virus/trojan/malware that is waking up every few hours to do some dirty deed?

                                                                                                                                              I use Emsisoft Anti-Malware (formerly known as A-Squared Free) as my malware scanner/remover. I have run it several times since this started and it only finds tracking cookies, which I have it delete. I use Avira AntiVir for my virus/trojan/malware/rootkit scanner. It is running at all times keeping an eye on all things happening. It has not sent me any messages since this all began.


                                                                                                                                              Let us know what you find!

                                                                                                                                              Good luck,
                                                                                                                                              Martin

                                                                                                                                              Please see my reply to Mikey, below. It tells of what my next objective is and what has happened since the Windoze "repair" install.

                                                                                                                                              I will keep everyone posted.

                                                                                                                                              Oh, by the way. I forgot to mention that I was using my Linux PC to use the Google machine to find information on the Internet. I discovered an article explaining the use of a Windoze utility called SFC. You hit Start/run and type sfc /scannow and it scans and verifies all Windoze system files. Must have the install CD in when doing so. There is a way around having to use the install CD, however. Anyway, it didn't tell me that anything was wrong with the system files, it just ended. I don't know much about the utility, maybe it just creates a log file of what it finds and one has to view the log. Need to check into it a little more. I just thought of that just now. :)

                                                                                                                                              Anyway, thanks for the suggestions, Martin. :)

                                                                                                                                              Keep on BOINCing...! :)

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                                                                                                                                              Message 107889 - Posted 17 Nov 2010 13:57:36 UTC

                                                                                                                                                Greetings everyone,

                                                                                                                                                RATS...

                                                                                                                                                I forgot to mention one crucial occurrence which happened after the Windoze "repair" install. And, I have to do this from the Linux PC since this is where all the info is that I found.

                                                                                                                                                During my nVIDIA driver install, I suddenly, out of the blue, got a BSOD. The error was caused by a Windoze system file called "ks.sys". The message was: 0x000000CB: DRIVER_LEFT_LOCKED_PAGES_IN_PROCESS (not sure of the number in front of the message). I copied that message from a forum post I found on the subject. The message is the same, not sure of the preceding number. Mine could have been different, I don't know.

                                                                                                                                                The BSOD was doing a memory dump while on screen, dumping it to a, I would assume, a file on the HDD. While it was doing its thing, I came to this PC and started using the Google machine to find out what was happening. After what seemed like an eternity, I hit the reset button on the i7. Windows booted somewhat fine and my nVIDIA driver was installed and the utility usable. I say "somewhat fine" because the artifact I mentioned a few days ago, on the Windoze "cylon" splash screen was gone, but re-appeared after the BSOD.

                                                                                                                                                During my time of research was when I found the article about the "sfc /scannow" utility, which, as reported earlier, I ran. On the above linked page, there is a link to a Micro$oft page giving more info on SFC. Evidently, it just does its thing and does not report back to the user anything it found or did. Kinda lame if you ask me. But then, that's kinda reminiscent of the very, very vague error messages coming out of Windoze.

                                                                                                                                                Anyway, just thought I would toss this into the mix, just for GP (general principle). :)

                                                                                                                                                Now, off to do another "repair" install... :(

                                                                                                                                                Keep on BOINCing...! :)

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                                                                                                                                                Message 107890 - Posted 17 Nov 2010 14:13:09 UTC - in response to Message 107888.

                                                                                                                                                  Last modified: 17 Nov 2010 14:13:32 UTC

                                                                                                                                                  Well, this is still nearer to 'curious' rather than 'solved'...

                                                                                                                                                  The idea of running your Windows system disconnected from the network is so that you can (securely) run it without the antivirus and firewall running, to then eliminate whether they might be interfering. Or even find if there is some other network activity such as Windows automatic update that might be throwing a spanner in the works.


                                                                                                                                                  Still a suspicion is video problems/overheat... Does Boinc run ok if you disable all GPU crunching?

                                                                                                                                                  If you already have Linux on there, a good test is to see if you get any further with that. At least you might get some clues to any problems from the logs.

                                                                                                                                                  (Good you haven't a cat to bung up the works with cat hair or even itself... :-) )


                                                                                                                                                  Good luck,
                                                                                                                                                  Martin


                                                                                                                                                  (You'd be amazed at some of the IT support calls... Such as "Can my computer work ok after drinking coffee?..." That is all the coffee was dropped onto the poor thing... Yes it was running. And no, it wasn't immediately switched off. Then it did 'strange things' whilst being dried somehow whilst still powered up...)
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                                                                                                                                                  Message 107891 - Posted 17 Nov 2010 15:05:03 UTC - in response to Message 107890.

                                                                                                                                                    Well, this is still nearer to 'curious' rather than 'solved'...

                                                                                                                                                    The idea of running your Windows system disconnected from the network is so that you can (securely) run it without the antivirus and firewall running, to then eliminate whether they might be interfering. Or even find if there is some other network activity such as Windows automatic update that might be throwing a spanner in the works.

                                                                                                                                                    Ok, well this will have to wait until after the current "repair" install is complete, again. By the way, when Windows install rebooted, after loading all the files it required, the "cylon" splash screen did NOT have the artifact as reported a few days ago. Let me check the progress...


                                                                                                                                                    Still a suspicion is video problems/overheat... Does Boinc run ok if you disable all GPU crunching?

                                                                                                                                                    Just had to enter the product key code...

                                                                                                                                                    Before this problem, BOINC ran fine with and without GPU. I opted not to run GPU with the other video card since it didn't quite have the muscle. Checking progress...


                                                                                                                                                    If you already have Linux on there, a good test is to see if you get any further with that. At least you might get some clues to any problems from the logs.

                                                                                                                                                    Registering components now...

                                                                                                                                                    I don't have Linux installed on the i7 right now. Good idea, though, and I plan on doing it. I did dual boot with it several months ago though. Checking progress...


                                                                                                                                                    (Good you haven't a cat to bung up the works with cat hair or even itself... :-) )


                                                                                                                                                    Good luck,
                                                                                                                                                    Martin


                                                                                                                                                    (You'd be amazed at some of the IT support calls... Such as "Can my computer work ok after drinking coffee?..." That is all the coffee was dropped onto the poor thing... Yes it was running. And no, it wasn't immediately switched off. Then it did 'strange things' whilst being dried somehow whilst still powered up...)

                                                                                                                                                    Finalizing installation...

                                                                                                                                                    Yeah, I have seen some really stupid things that people do to their PCs and need help with "fixing" it.

                                                                                                                                                    Installation complete. Now sitting on the logo screen that says "Please wait...". Windoze is sitting there with no HDD activity and no CD activity. It's sitting dumbfounded, not knowing what to do next... I do have the hourglass cursor and can move it around the screen. Lotta dang good THAT does me! I'll give it a few more minutes and if it doesn't wake up to reality, I'll hit the reset button, just like the other day when this happened.

                                                                                                                                                    Ok, hitting the reset button and when booted, will use sfc to check my system files.

                                                                                                                                                    Thanks Martin! :)

                                                                                                                                                    Keep on BOINCing...! :)

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                                                                                                                                                    Message 107892 - Posted 17 Nov 2010 15:22:18 UTC

                                                                                                                                                      Last modified: 17 Nov 2010 15:25:57 UTC

                                                                                                                                                      Greetings,

                                                                                                                                                      *** UPDATE ***

                                                                                                                                                      "Repair" installation is complete. I hit the reset button at the "Please wait..." screen. Got tired of "Please wait..."-ing again. i7 booted up fine. There was no reported artifact on the "cylon" splash screen. SFC (System File Checker) is running and verifying my system files.

                                                                                                                                                      Running on the generic Windoze video driver. Will install the nVIDIA driver once SFC is complete. Hopefully there will be no BSOD this time. If there is, I believe it is going to be "Clean" installation time.

                                                                                                                                                      Keep on BOINCing...! :)

                                                                                                                                                      [edit]
                                                                                                                                                      By the way, there are over 4,000 system files that SFC needs to verify! :O
                                                                                                                                                      [\edit]
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                                                                                                                                                      Message 107894 - Posted 17 Nov 2010 17:34:53 UTC

                                                                                                                                                        Last modified: 17 Nov 2010 18:26:15 UTC

                                                                                                                                                        Greetings,

                                                                                                                                                        *** UPDATE ***

                                                                                                                                                        Well, installing the nVIDIA driver from the CD is a bust! But, no BSOD this time. Woohoo! :) Had to run SFC again to reverse what the install screwed up. The artifact was still a no-show. Woohoo! :)

                                                                                                                                                        I updated the driver through Device Manager and no problem there. Well, yeah, the artifact is back again! :(

                                                                                                                                                        I went to the manufacturer's website and downloaded the latest driver. Installed it. No problem, except that fraking artifact. Plus, I now have the nVIDIA settings manager.

                                                                                                                                                        I believe that because of that artifact on the "cylon" splash screen, the i7 is still going to be screwed. I'll let it run for a while and see. I'll start BOINC to see what happens too. BOINC test first...

                                                                                                                                                        Keep on BOINCing...! :)

                                                                                                                                                        [edit]
                                                                                                                                                        Well, one thing I have noticed that has changed:

                                                                                                                                                        I don't use Task Manager any more. I use a much better utility called System Explorer v2.3.8.3214. It shows much more information than TM does.

                                                                                                                                                        Anyway, I had noticed that on Physical Memory the System cache was reported greater than available memory. I thought this to be quite odd. Now, it is reported correctly, much lower than available:

                                                                                                                                                        Available: roughly 2.2 GB
                                                                                                                                                        System cache: roughly 660 MB.
                                                                                                                                                        [/edit]
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                                                                                                                                                        Message 107898 - Posted 17 Nov 2010 21:53:59 UTC

                                                                                                                                                          Greetings,

                                                                                                                                                          *** UPDATE ***

                                                                                                                                                          Ok, ran a 10 minute torture test on the video card:

                                                                                                                                                          Downloaded: FurMark - OpenGL Benchmark - GPU Burner v1.8.2
                                                                                                                                                          Torture tested: for 10 minutes, temp maxing out at 69C, averaging 66C
                                                                                                                                                          Benchmark: 1747 @ 60,000 ms (unknown whether good, bad or indifferent)
                                                                                                                                                          Observation: motherboard temp higher than CPU temp

                                                                                                                                                          Results: no smoke, fire, strange sounds or smells of any sort

                                                                                                                                                          Conclusion:
                                                                                                                                                          I would conclude that my video card can stand the stress. At least for 10 minutes. I saw a picture of what FurMark did to a video card. I believe it to be a low end card, no on board cooling. It was burnt, fried, toasted beyond usable!!! Good thing I didn't see that pic before I ran my stress test. I probably would not have. ;)

                                                                                                                                                          I believe my i7 hardware is functioning within established parameters. Now for some software, dual booting Linux...

                                                                                                                                                          Keep on BOINCing...! :)

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                                                                                                                                                          Message 107906 - Posted 18 Nov 2010 0:45:58 UTC - in response to Message 107898.

                                                                                                                                                            on the topic of SFC, it actually does write a log, usually in c:\windows\logs\cbs\cbs.log

                                                                                                                                                            youl need to start notepad or your preferred txt editor as admin to be able to read it.

                                                                                                                                                            OT
                                                                                                                                                            i wish you luck in making heads or tails of it, as i am currently trying to do, as it reaches 100% but reports corrupted files that it could not fix, but i cant figure out WHAT files from the log! fun fun.
                                                                                                                                                            /OT
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                                                                                                                                                            Message 107909 - Posted 18 Nov 2010 12:58:16 UTC - in response to Message 107894.

                                                                                                                                                              Well, one thing I have noticed that has changed:

                                                                                                                                                              I don't use Task Manager any more. I use a much better utility called System Explorer v2.3.8.3214. It shows much more information than TM does.

                                                                                                                                                              Anyway, I had noticed that on Physical Memory the System cache was reported greater than available memory. I thought this to be quite odd. Now, it is reported correctly, much lower than available:

                                                                                                                                                              Available: roughly 2.2 GB
                                                                                                                                                              System cache: roughly 660 MB.


                                                                                                                                                              Windows Vista and Win7 both handle memory MUCH differently than XP does, Vista and Win7 both believe that unused memory is wasted memory and will use unused memory as a 'cache' to make the system faster.

                                                                                                                                                              The next time you reboot go into your Bios and see if you have it set to shut off the machine, or even to slow it down if it hits a certain temp? That could be the problem too, when just running as a pc without Boinc nothing is getting heat stressed so it would not come close to that temp, but when running Boinc it easily could, thereby shutting down the machine, or at least causing your bsod. Do you leave the side off or on? If you always put it back on, try leaving it off for a bit and see if that makes any difference.

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                                                                                                                                                              Message 107914 - Posted 18 Nov 2010 16:30:21 UTC - in response to Message 107909.

                                                                                                                                                                Last modified: 18 Nov 2010 16:38:33 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                ... unused memory is wasted memory and will use unused memory as a 'cache' to make the system faster. ...

                                                                                                                                                                That's very much the case. System RAM is an "expensive" resource that should be used as effectively as possible, just as with the CPU. Windows using system RAM as an OS level cache is one of the tricks copied over from various other OSes that have been doing that (and other optimisations) for many years.

                                                                                                                                                                The Linux kernel has got various tweaks that you can control whilst live (no reboots needed!) for how system resources including caches are utilised. Then again, unless you're doing something very unusual, the defaults work very well.

                                                                                                                                                                I'm presently running with:

                                                                                                                                                                $ free total used free shared buffers cached Mem: 8195456 6825308 1370148 0 1120184 3098888 -/+ buffers/cache: 2606236 5589220 Swap: 16774512 416328 16358184


                                                                                                                                                                So that's 8GByte physical RAM, and 6.8GByte is utilised. There's a further 0.4GBytes stored on the disk swap space. But note that there's just 2.6GBytes of that used for the multitude of applications I've got open/running. There's 1GByte utilised by buffers and 3GBytes of OS cached data. 1.4GBytes is left unused as immediately available for allocation.

                                                                                                                                                                OK, so that's a no-sweat on that system. More cache/buffers aren't used because there just isn't more data that can be usefully cached. When more busy, the caches can run the main memory down to as little as 50MBytes free. Areas from the caches and buffers are progressively sacrificed if an application then needs more main memory.

                                                                                                                                                                All very clever and effective and it all helps to maintain a constant 100% CPU utilisation :-)


                                                                                                                                                                Happy crunchin',
                                                                                                                                                                Martin
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                                                                                                                                                                Message 107919 - Posted 18 Nov 2010 18:48:56 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                  Greetings,

                                                                                                                                                                  @ Mikey & Martin

                                                                                                                                                                  I tell ya guys, I'm about fed up with trying to figure this out. Nothing seems to help in any way. Not "repair" installs, not updating my video driver nothing. And now, I am stuck with trying to dual-boot Linux on this thing.

                                                                                                                                                                  I started a thread on the Kubuntu forum with a problem with the install. I've tried to install both v10.04 and v10.10, I get the same problem with both at the exact same location in the install.

                                                                                                                                                                  The install gets to the partitioning section where it sees that I have WinXP installed and gives me the option to install on a new partition along side of Windoze. Before I can do anything, my mouse and keyboard lock up tight. I have to pull the CD and do a hard reset. I even changed out my wireless keyboard and mouse for the 20th century version and still, they lock up.

                                                                                                                                                                  I swear, I'm close to getting rid of Windoze, if it weren't for the fact that I do some things on it that I cannot do on Linux, yet. Hmmmm... Just had a thought... I think my next try at the Linux install will be to by-pass my KVM switch and hook the mouse and keyboard direct. Actually, I really don't see where that would make any difference except that I can eliminate the KVM switch.

                                                                                                                                                                  Well, maybe tomorrow, I have to go to work in a couple hours.

                                                                                                                                                                  Thanks for the help! :)

                                                                                                                                                                  Keep on BOINCing...! :)

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                                                                                                                                                                  Message 107928 - Posted 19 Nov 2010 12:24:07 UTC - in response to Message 107919.

                                                                                                                                                                    Greetings,

                                                                                                                                                                    @ Mikey & Martin

                                                                                                                                                                    I tell ya guys, I'm about fed up with trying to figure this out. Nothing seems to help in any way. Not "repair" installs, not updating my video driver nothing. And now, I am stuck with trying to dual-boot Linux on this thing.

                                                                                                                                                                    I started a thread on the Kubuntu forum with a problem with the install. I've tried to install both v10.04 and v10.10, I get the same problem with both at the exact same location in the install.

                                                                                                                                                                    The install gets to the partitioning section where it sees that I have WinXP installed and gives me the option to install on a new partition along side of Windoze. Before I can do anything, my mouse and keyboard lock up tight. I have to pull the CD and do a hard reset. I even changed out my wireless keyboard and mouse for the 20th century version and still, they lock up.

                                                                                                                                                                    I swear, I'm close to getting rid of Windoze, if it weren't for the fact that I do some things on it that I cannot do on Linux, yet. Hmmmm... Just had a thought... I think my next try at the Linux install will be to by-pass my KVM switch and hook the mouse and keyboard direct. Actually, I really don't see where that would make any difference except that I can eliminate the KVM switch.

                                                                                                                                                                    Well, maybe tomorrow, I have to go to work in a couple hours.

                                                                                                                                                                    Thanks for the help! :)

                                                                                                                                                                    Keep on BOINCing...! :)


                                                                                                                                                                    During OS installs I ALWAYS remove all 'funky' things so the pc only sees the standard old stuff, ie kvm switches, wireless anything are all removed and direct wired things are used instead. Then after the install is the way I like it I start installing those 'funky' things again.

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                                                                                                                                                                    Message 107930 - Posted 19 Nov 2010 14:53:45 UTC - in response to Message 107909.

                                                                                                                                                                      Well, one thing I have noticed that has changed:

                                                                                                                                                                      -[ snip ]-

                                                                                                                                                                      Available: roughly 2.2 GB
                                                                                                                                                                      System cache: roughly 660 MB.


                                                                                                                                                                      Windows Vista and Win7 both handle memory MUCH differently than XP does, Vista and Win7 both believe that unused memory is wasted memory and will use unused memory as a 'cache' to make the system faster.

                                                                                                                                                                      The next time you reboot go into your Bios and see if you have it set to shut off the machine, or even to slow it down if it hits a certain temp? That could be the problem too, when just running as a pc without Boinc nothing is getting heat stressed so it would not come close to that temp, but when running Boinc it easily could, thereby shutting down the machine, or at least causing your bsod. Do you leave the side off or on? If you always put it back on, try leaving it off for a bit and see if that makes any difference.

                                                                                                                                                                      Greetings Mikey,

                                                                                                                                                                      After you posted this yesterday, and after I reported what I observed, I believe that XP is handling available memory much the same way as Vista and 7. When I first re-booted, 20 hours ago, my available and system cache were much as in my quote above. Now, after 20 hours, my system cache is greater than my available: 2 GB system and 1.8 GB available.

                                                                                                                                                                      About the BIOS suggestion: I will do that in a bit. I'm going to make one more attempt at installing Linux on the i7 for dual-boot purposes as suggested by Martin the other day.

                                                                                                                                                                      I still cannot get over the fact that the i7 runs without a problem so long as I'm not running BOINC. It's only when I allow it to run BOINC that all H E double hockey sticks breaks loose. This, to me, tells me that:

                                                                                                                                                                      1. There is something wrong with BOINC
                                                                                                                                                                      2. There is something wrong with Windoze
                                                                                                                                                                      3. There is a conflict with Windoze when BOINC is running
                                                                                                                                                                      4. There is a conflict with BOINC due to #2 above
                                                                                                                                                                      5. Any combination of 1 thru 4 above

                                                                                                                                                                      One thing I have forgotten to mention is: Sometimes, when BOINC is running and I start getting this problem, I'll see an error message stating (in paraphrase), "X application cannot start. System is low on resources. You need to stop some other applications to free up more resources." I'll check my available RAM and system cache and they will be fine. Before all this started happening, I had no problem running 5, 6 or more apps, including BOINC, all at the same time.

                                                                                                                                                                      I only had the BSOD once, the other day, since I built the i7 back in May. The error was caused by a Windoze system file when I was installing my video driver. Which, by the way, was fully installed even with the generated error and BSOD. Weird, huh?

                                                                                                                                                                      Before all this, I was running BOINC on all 8 cores, crunching SETI, plus having several other apps going as well, with no ill affects. I ran a "torture test" on the CPU the other day and it passed without a single error. All my hardware passes without errors.

                                                                                                                                                                      I leave all panels intact on the case after working inside it. Leaving the side panel(s) off would tend to raise the temps. I don't see how that would be an effective test...

                                                                                                                                                                      Ok, off to see about the Linux install... :)

                                                                                                                                                                      Thanks Mikey! :)

                                                                                                                                                                      Keep on BOINCing...! :)

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                                                                                                                                                                      Message 107932 - Posted 19 Nov 2010 19:01:50 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                        Greetings,

                                                                                                                                                                        *** UPDATE ***

                                                                                                                                                                        My i7 is now dual-boot capable. Kubuntu v10.10 is installed next door to WinXP Pro. It is the 64 bit version.

                                                                                                                                                                        The i7 is happily crunching MilkyWay and VP. BOINC v6.10.58 is installed on the Linux side of the fence. BOINC is running on all 8 cylinders for now. Figured for a good test, may as well allow all 8 cores. :)

                                                                                                                                                                        This will test to see if there is indeed something wrong with the i7 or if Windoze is just acting its usual flakey self. I'm figuring and hoping the latter.

                                                                                                                                                                        Wish me luck, guys! :)

                                                                                                                                                                        Keep on BOINCing...! :) (And, once again, I AM!)

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                                                                                                                                                                        Message 107934 - Posted 19 Nov 2010 19:33:36 UTC - in response to Message 107932.

                                                                                                                                                                          Last modified: 19 Nov 2010 19:34:41 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                          ... My i7 is now dual-boot capable. Kubuntu v10.10 is installed next door to WinXP Pro. It is the 64 bit version.

                                                                                                                                                                          The i7 is happily crunching MilkyWay and VP. BOINC v6.10.58 is installed on the Linux side of the fence. BOINC is running on all 8 cylinders for now. Figured for a good test, may as well allow all 8 cores. :)

                                                                                                                                                                          This will test to see if there is indeed something wrong with the i7 or if Windoze is just acting its usual flakey self. I'm figuring and hoping the latter.

                                                                                                                                                                          Wish me luck, guys! :)

                                                                                                                                                                          Just see what happens.

                                                                                                                                                                          That should be a good test to compare whether it might be a hardware or OS problem.

                                                                                                                                                                          If OS, then my wild guesses for this story would be to next suspect the drivers or anti-virus. Might even be a strange problem within Win7 itself.

                                                                                                                                                                          If hardware, then I think the next suspects are problems with a PSU overload or localised heating.


                                                                                                                                                                          If an Win7 OS problem, any problem for staying with Linux on that box?

                                                                                                                                                                          Good luck!
                                                                                                                                                                          Martin
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                                                                                                                                                                          Message 107936 - Posted 19 Nov 2010 20:35:58 UTC - in response to Message 107934.

                                                                                                                                                                            ... My i7 is now dual-boot capable. Kubuntu v10.10 is installed next door to WinXP Pro. It is the 64 bit version.

                                                                                                                                                                            The i7 is happily crunching MilkyWay and VP. BOINC v6.10.58 is installed on the Linux side of the fence. BOINC is running on all 8 cylinders for now. Figured for a good test, may as well allow all 8 cores. :)

                                                                                                                                                                            This will test to see if there is indeed something wrong with the i7 or if Windoze is just acting its usual flakey self. I'm figuring and hoping the latter.

                                                                                                                                                                            Wish me luck, guys! :)

                                                                                                                                                                            Just see what happens.

                                                                                                                                                                            That should be a good test to compare whether it might be a hardware or OS problem.


                                                                                                                                                                            BOINC is happily crunching away. I've already had some WUs for both projects finished and updated. It's been almost a hour and a half now and I see no ill affects, yet.

                                                                                                                                                                            If OS, then my wild guesses for this story would be to next suspect the drivers or anti-virus. Might even be a strange problem within Win7 itself.


                                                                                                                                                                            My anti-virus updates periodically, including core components. But that's not to say that something hasn't come through buggy.

                                                                                                                                                                            If hardware, then I think the next suspects are problems with a PSU overload or localised heating.


                                                                                                                                                                            Localized heating? Not sure what you mean there Martin. I know the CPU is not overheating. The Corsair H50 is doing its job quite nicely. I haven't seen a CPU temp over 51C and that is considerably lower than when it ran with the stock fan. I don't believe that my video card is overheating, not after the torture test I put it through the other day.

                                                                                                                                                                            The PSU is only a few years old. And, it's no cheap PSU either. The monitor that came with the Asus motherboard shows all the voltages within established parameters.


                                                                                                                                                                            If an Win7 OS problem, any problem for staying with Linux on that box?

                                                                                                                                                                            Sorry Martin, not running Win7. I'm running WinXP Pro 32 bit. I'm sure you know Mark Sattler over at SETI? Well, after reading about his Win7 experiences this morning, I'm not so sure I want to go that route just yet. I know that WinXP Pro 64 bit is still available and will get it after the new year. If Win7 is anything like Vista, I don't want it. I got rid of Vista off my laptop in lieu of Linux. I hated waiting nearly 5 minutes for the laptop to boot into Vista. Not to mention I couldn't do things that I could do with a blindfold on in WinXP. And, I didn't like the GUI at all.


                                                                                                                                                                            Good luck!
                                                                                                                                                                            Martin

                                                                                                                                                                            Wow! BOINC is just chowin' down on those WUs! It just uploaded and updated some VP WUs and downloaded some more already. Perhaps it's time for some Einstein too. It's getting close to the 2 hour mark and still going strong! I really hope it continues... :)

                                                                                                                                                                            Thanks Martin! :)

                                                                                                                                                                            Keep on BOINCing...!

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                                                                                                                                                                            Message 107947 - Posted 20 Nov 2010 11:25:31 UTC - in response to Message 107936.


                                                                                                                                                                              If an Win7 OS problem, any problem for staying with Linux on that box?


                                                                                                                                                                              Sorry Martin, not running Win7. I'm running WinXP Pro 32 bit. I'm sure you know Mark Sattler over at SETI? Well, after reading about his Win7 experiences this morning, I'm not so sure I want to go that route just yet. I know that WinXP Pro 64 bit is still available and will get it after the new year. If Win7 is anything like Vista, I don't want it. I got rid of Vista off my laptop in lieu of Linux. I hated waiting nearly 5 minutes for the laptop to boot into Vista. Not to mention I couldn't do things that I could do with a blindfold on in WinXP. And, I didn't like the GUI at all.


                                                                                                                                                                              Win7 IS Windows Vista but all fixed, or mostly fixed. The way to tell if an OS is being accepted is to watch the Business Community computers, and they are now switching to Win7 from XP! The Business Community had ALOT of problems with Vista too but are finding most of those fixed or bypassed in Win7. I too run Win7 and LOVE IT!! My wife was switched from Vista to Win7 and LOVES IT!! She is not a computer person but figured things out. If you knew the Vista way then you pretty much know the Win7 way of doing things. NO it is NOT exactly the same for everything, they would not be able to sell a new OS for more money if they didn't change something!!

                                                                                                                                                                              Also XP is about to be dumped as far as Windows Updates goes, meaning it will be wide open to all viruses, trojans, etc, etc because MS will NOT be providing updates. Just as happened to Windows 2000 and 98 etc, etc. You MUST update and win7 IS a good choice!

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                                                                                                                                                                              Message 107952 - Posted 20 Nov 2010 20:00:14 UTC - in response to Message 107947.


                                                                                                                                                                                If an Win7 OS problem, any problem for staying with Linux on that box?

                                                                                                                                                                                Sorry Martin, not running Win7. I'm running WinXP Pro 32 bit.

                                                                                                                                                                                -[ snip ]-


                                                                                                                                                                                Win7 IS Windows Vista but all fixed, or mostly fixed. The way to tell if an OS is being accepted is to watch the Business Community computers, and they are now switching to Win7 from XP! The Business Community had ALOT of problems with Vista too but are finding most of those fixed or bypassed in Win7. I too run Win7 and LOVE IT!! My wife was switched from Vista to Win7 and LOVES IT!! She is not a computer person but figured things out. If you knew the Vista way then you pretty much know the Win7 way of doing things. NO it is NOT exactly the same for everything, they would not be able to sell a new OS for more money if they didn't change something!!

                                                                                                                                                                                Also XP is about to be dumped as far as Windows Updates goes, meaning it will be wide open to all viruses, trojans, etc, etc because MS will NOT be providing updates. Just as happened to Windows 2000 and 98 etc, etc. You MUST update and win7 IS a good choice!

                                                                                                                                                                                Greetings Mikey,

                                                                                                                                                                                About a year ago, I wrote a Perl CGI program that analyzes the information received when my websites receive a hit. The information is stored in a log and read by the program. The section that analyzes the OS hits show me that XP is not about to die any time soon.

                                                                                                                                                                                Analysis this month to date:
                                                                                                                                                                                WinXP - 44.9% of total hits Vista - 29.5% of total hits Win7 - 10.7% of total hits

                                                                                                                                                                                I believe that the Win7 percentage will have to increase dramatically to overcome Vista, let along WinXP. Perhaps I'll go to Buy More, er, I mean Best Buy and play around with Win7 just to get a feel for it. I know I won't be able to do anything really dramatic, since it's only a demo. Right now, I'm on the fence between XP and 7.
                                                                                                                                                                                ----------

                                                                                                                                                                                *** UPDATE ***

                                                                                                                                                                                Well, I'm dual booting WinXP and Kubuntu v10.10 on the i7. Took some doing to get Linux to install, but finally got it to. Right now, I'm not too happy with v10.10, but that's beside the point of this update.

                                                                                                                                                                                After the install and getting some configuration done, I installed BOINC v6.10.58. Yep, the latest and greatest! I attached to MilkyWay and Virtual Prairie. The i7 BOINCed for 8 straight hours before I had to switch to WinXP. The i7 ran without a problem, well one unrelated one that I'll get to in a moment. I'm going to try to let it go for at least 24 hours, hopefully, before I have to do something needing WinXP again.


                                                                                                                                                                                The small problem mentioned above is that with my keyboard and mouse. I have a KVM switch between my i7 and the Linux PC. The Linux PC is running Kubuntu v10.04, no other OS on the Linux PC.

                                                                                                                                                                                When I first tried to install v10.04 and then v10.10, on the i7 for dual-boot purposes, the mouse and keyboard would lock up at the partitioning section for both installs. I swapped out my wireless mouse and keyboard for wired ones and they locked up. I finally connected them directly to the i7 and got v10.10 to install. After the installation I went back to my original setup.

                                                                                                                                                                                On occasion, they will still lock up in v10.10 only. They don't lock up if the i7 is booted into WinXP and they don't lock up for the Linux PC. While locked up, I switch to the Linux PC and they are still working quite nicely.

                                                                                                                                                                                I have swapped out the 2 port KVM for a 4 port KVM. They still lock up. I have swapped out the wireless for wired keyboard and mouse and they still lock up. My thought is that Kubuntu is not quite ready for "prime Time".

                                                                                                                                                                                Anyway, that problem is irrelevant to the problem being discussed in this thread. Despite the lock up, BOINC and everything else continues to run without a problem, there's just no further interaction. I did find a widget that displays the CPU and MoBo temps, and the temps are within normal parameters. There is no overheating taking place.

                                                                                                                                                                                That's it for now. I'm leaning quite heavily toward the notion that WinXP Pro will have to go through a clean install, again. And, you all know what that means... ;) Re-installation of all my other software. :(

                                                                                                                                                                                Have a great weekend! :)

                                                                                                                                                                                Keep on BOINCing...! :)

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                                                                                                                                                                                Message 107955 - Posted 20 Nov 2010 23:08:41 UTC - in response to Message 107952.

                                                                                                                                                                                  ... The small problem mentioned above is that with my keyboard and mouse. I have a KVM switch between my i7 and the Linux PC. The Linux PC is running Kubuntu v10.04, no other OS on the Linux PC.

                                                                                                                                                                                  ...On occasion, they will still lock up in v10.10 only. They don't lock up if the i7 is booted into WinXP and they don't lock up for the Linux PC. While locked up, I switch to the Linux PC and they are still working quite nicely.

                                                                                                                                                                                  I have swapped out the 2 port KVM for a 4 port KVM. They still lock up...

                                                                                                                                                                                  That's a curious one that I've heard of in the past. Can't remember the problem/fix.

                                                                                                                                                                                  Try a Google search for Kubuntu 1010 KVM lockup? There's enough of Kubuntu out there for people to be discussing it if it's a problem.

                                                                                                                                                                                  One dodgy KVM lead or KVM connector possibly?


                                                                                                                                                                                  Let us know how you get on!

                                                                                                                                                                                  Good luck,
                                                                                                                                                                                  Martin

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                                                                                                                                                                                  Message 107967 - Posted 21 Nov 2010 12:35:33 UTC - in response to Message 107952.

                                                                                                                                                                                    About a year ago, I wrote a Perl CGI program that analyzes the information received when my websites receive a hit. The information is stored in a log and read by the program. The section that analyzes the OS hits show me that XP is not about to die any time soon.

                                                                                                                                                                                    Analysis this month to date:
                                                                                                                                                                                    WinXP - 44.9% of total hits Vista - 29.5% of total hits Win7 - 10.7% of total hits

                                                                                                                                                                                    I believe that the Win7 percentage will have to increase dramatically to overcome Vista, let along WinXP. Perhaps I'll go to Buy More, er, I mean Best Buy and play around with Win7 just to get a feel for it. I know I won't be able to do anything really dramatic, since it's only a demo. Right now, I'm on the fence between XP and 7.
                                                                                                                                                                                    ----------

                                                                                                                                                                                    Keep on BOINCing...! :)


                                                                                                                                                                                    And since when has MS cared what its users think? MS switched to Win98 from Win95 even though its users LOVED 95, they then came out with Me, 2000 and XP, each time not caring a hoot about what its users were thinking or seemingly caring either! Windows XP support WILL be ended VERY shortly and NOT extended again! That according to the MS guy that works where I used to work! Yes my old 'company' paid the salary of a guy from MS to be on site as his daily job. Every day he came to my 'company' and then tried to keep the 30k pc's, servers, whatever all communicating as his job. I use 'company' because it was a local government agency that I no longer work for, and NO it was not THAT 'company'!!

                                                                                                                                                                                    If you have a spare pc I think you can still download a demo of Win7 somewhere.
                                                                                                                                                                                    ____________

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                                                                                                                                                                                    Message 107968 - Posted 21 Nov 2010 14:26:12 UTC - in response to Message 107955.

                                                                                                                                                                                      ... The small problem mentioned above is that with my keyboard and mouse. I have a KVM switch between my i7 and the Linux PC. The Linux PC is running Kubuntu v10.04, no other OS on the Linux PC.

                                                                                                                                                                                      ...On occasion, they will still lock up in v10.10 only. They don't lock up if the i7 is booted into WinXP and they don't lock up for the Linux PC. While locked up, I switch to the Linux PC and they are still working quite nicely.

                                                                                                                                                                                      I have swapped out the 2 port KVM for a 4 port KVM. They still lock up...

                                                                                                                                                                                      That's a curious one that I've heard of in the past. Can't remember the problem/fix.

                                                                                                                                                                                      Try a Google search for Kubuntu 1010 KVM lockup? There's enough of Kubuntu out there for people to be discussing it if it's a problem.

                                                                                                                                                                                      One dodgy KVM lead or KVM connector possibly?


                                                                                                                                                                                      Let us know how you get on!

                                                                                                                                                                                      Good luck,
                                                                                                                                                                                      Martin

                                                                                                                                                                                      Greetings Martin,

                                                                                                                                                                                      Well, I do believe I have come to a conclusion on both my problems:

                                                                                                                                                                                      The i7 is still running on Kubuntu v10.10. And, it is still BOINCing quite nicely. This after 17 hours of continuous operation. I can't get much past 8 on WinXP, if even that. This tells me that my next project will be to do a clean install of WinXP.

                                                                                                                                                                                      As for the mouse / keyboard lock up problem: I do not believe that it is hardware, in that I have 2 different KVM switches and the problem happens with both, also with wireless and wired mice and keyboards, while running Kubuntu v10.10 only. There is no lock up problem with the Linux PC running v10.04 Kubuntu and there is no problem on the i7 when running on WinXP. By the way, I believe I found a pattern in the lock up. I have noticed that if I have 3 apps running and start a fourth for whatever reason, that is when the mouse and keyboard lock up.

                                                                                                                                                                                      I said yesterday that I believed that Kubuntu v10.10 was not ready for prime time. I did as you suggested and used the Google machine to see what I could find about the mouse/keyboard/KVM lock up problem. I found that many users were/are having the same problem, but not just with v10.10. I read on one user's blog, an article about this with v10.10, and in the end, he said the same thing I did, v10.10 is not ready for prime time.

                                                                                                                                                                                      So, in conclusion of this final test: I have the 2 BOINC projects set to NNT and when they have finished, I will do a clean install of WinXP and not dual-boot Kubuntu. I will have the Windoze install recover the partition that Linux is on right now. This installation will be a temporary one. After I get my tax return next year, I plan on getting a 64 bit version of Windoze, whether that be WinXP Pro or Win7 Pro, I will decide then. Also, I will wait for Kubuntu v10.10 to be released with LTS, perhaps by then most of the current bugs will be squashed. I then will upgrade my Linux PC, maybe, it is running quite fine and stable on v10.04.

                                                                                                                                                                                      Martin, thanks for your help and suggestions. I really appreciate it. :) Feel free to continue. I will continue to post updates here until I am satisfied that there are no more problems. BOINC is finished with VP, except that it cannot upload one last WU result because of an error (probably due to a lock up and hard reset to re-boot). I'm not sure how long MilkyWay will take, I'm thinking at least a couple more days. I'm seeing some 53 hour TTCs, ok, maybe 3 more days, heck, maybe a week. I have quite a number of WUs yet. The mouse and keyboard are still operational with only 2 apps running, BOINC and my terminal program to check for uptime.

                                                                                                                                                                                      Thanks again, Martin! :)

                                                                                                                                                                                      Keep on BOINCing...! :) (I am, once again! :) )

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                                                                                                                                                                                      Message 107969 - Posted 21 Nov 2010 18:24:27 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                        Last modified: 21 Nov 2010 18:27:01 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                        Very interesting...

                                                                                                                                                                                        I use a four port KVM switching between 4 servers and all works fine across various flavours/versions of Mandriva. ...There are more distros than just Kubuntu/Ubuntu.

                                                                                                                                                                                        My list of suggestions for trying distros runs:

                                                                                                                                                                                        Kubuntu, Mandriva, PCLinuxOS, Sabayon, Debian, Fedora, CentOS.

                                                                                                                                                                                        I'm sure others will have their preferences!

                                                                                                                                                                                        If you want an "LTS" edition, the Kubuntu 10.04LTS should work well.


                                                                                                                                                                                        Very strange that you associate starting a fourth application for causing the KVM problem... But then if you need to use the KVM, then that's a killer.

                                                                                                                                                                                        For KVM hardware problems, don't forget that the problem can be in a lead/connector and not just the box itself...

                                                                                                                                                                                        If you have some "killer apps" on Windows that you don't want to move from, it may be worth a giggle to see if they are supported on Linux by using WINE. In the days of old, the fastest combination to run the old s@h 'screensaver' cruncher was to run the Windows application on WINE on a Linux OS!


                                                                                                                                                                                        Good luck,
                                                                                                                                                                                        Martin
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                                                                                                                                                                                        Message 107970 - Posted 21 Nov 2010 18:56:09 UTC - in response to Message 107969.

                                                                                                                                                                                          Last modified: 21 Nov 2010 18:57:12 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                          If you have some "killer apps" on Windows that you don't want to move from, it may be worth a giggle to see if they are supported on Linux by using WINE. In the days of old, the fastest combination to run the old s@h 'screensaver' cruncher was to run the Windows application on WINE on a Linux OS!


                                                                                                                                                                                          Not exactly a comparable example but still interesting for a giggle:

                                                                                                                                                                                          Windows Supercomputer Breaks Petaflop Barrier

                                                                                                                                                                                          ... The problem Microsoft faced with its Top 500 ranking is that the achievement wasn't recognized because the same machine was able to achieve higher speeds using Linux. General manager of Microsoft's technical computing group Bill Hilf said that the benchmarking tests were performed on both Linux and Windows with a resulting 5-percent difference, however Linux came out on top. That said, the Tokyo Institute was only allowed to submit one test to the Top 500 group, and obviously chose the faster of the two...


                                                                                                                                                                                          Happy fast crunchin'!
                                                                                                                                                                                          Martin
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                                                                                                                                                                                          Message 107971 - Posted 21 Nov 2010 21:01:32 UTC - in response to Message 107970.

                                                                                                                                                                                            however Linux came out on top.

                                                                                                                                                                                            Would it not be more accurate to say that the compiler used for the Linux copy of the application beat out the one used for Windows?

                                                                                                                                                                                            Surely you don't think either OS has anywhere near 5% inherent overhead for this sort of work?

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                                                                                                                                                                                            Message 107972 - Posted 21 Nov 2010 22:10:21 UTC - in response to Message 107969.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Very interesting...

                                                                                                                                                                                              I use a four port KVM switching between 4 servers and all works fine across various flavours/versions of Mandriva. ...There are more distros than just Kubuntu/Ubuntu.

                                                                                                                                                                                              My list of suggestions for trying distros runs:

                                                                                                                                                                                              Kubuntu, Mandriva, PCLinuxOS, Sabayon, Debian, Fedora, CentOS.

                                                                                                                                                                                              I'm sure others will have their preferences!

                                                                                                                                                                                              If you want an "LTS" edition, the Kubuntu 10.04LTS should work well.

                                                                                                                                                                                              I'm already running the LTS edition of Kubuntu v10.04, on my Linux PC. I had first read about Ubuntu in PC World and thought I would give it a try. My first *nix type OS was FreeBSD. Although I had it on 2 different PCs, there was a very high learning curve involved in the configuration. I had a hard time understanding what I was doing. That was about 6 years ago.

                                                                                                                                                                                              I went ahead, about 3 years ago, with Ubuntu. The one thing I didn't like about it was the GUI, Gnome if memory serves. I had KDE installed on the FreeBSD PCs and liked it. So, I installed KDE on the Ubuntu PC. Then I discovered Kubuntu which already has KDE installed when installing the OS. Been with it ever since. It is my Linux preference. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                              Very strange that you associate starting a fourth application for causing the KVM problem... But then if you need to use the KVM, then that's a killer.

                                                                                                                                                                                              For KVM hardware problems, don't forget that the problem can be in a lead/connector and not just the box itself...

                                                                                                                                                                                              Martin, I know you're trying to help, and I really appreciate it, really. :) But, wouldn't it be logical to determine that there is nothing wrong with the KVM or anything related to it since the problem is associated to only one OS on a dual-boot PC? When the keyboard and mouse lock up in v10.10 on the i7, I switch to v10.04 on the Linux PC and the keyboard and mouse are working just fine. I switch back to the i7 and they're still locked up. I'm on the v10.04 PC right now and have been for the better part of 2 hours. With more than 3 apps running on v10.10, they lock up. I have had as many as 5 or 6 going at once in the v10.04 without a problem. I've had as many or more going at once in WinXP and no problems.

                                                                                                                                                                                              I can replicate the occurrence right now by starting up 2 more apps, in v10.10, on the i7. But, the i7 has been BOINCing for better than 24 hours and I would like to see what the uptime will be when the WUs are finished. That is my main objective right now. When it's done, I will no longer be running v10.10, so the keyboard / mouse lock up issue is somewhat moot.

                                                                                                                                                                                              If you have some "killer apps" on Windows that you don't want to move from, it may be worth a giggle to see if they are supported on Linux by using WINE. In the days of old, the fastest combination to run the old s@h 'screensaver' cruncher was to run the Windows application on WINE on a Linux OS!

                                                                                                                                                                                              I only have one "killer app" and it only comes in Windoze and Mac versions. I did try that app in Wine on Linux. It crashed the computer after about 30 to 45 minutes. I decided not to take that road again.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Good luck,
                                                                                                                                                                                              Martin

                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks Martin! :) The i7 is just over 25 hours and counting. I believe that effectively discounts any possibility of failing hardware. Wouldn't you say? :)

                                                                                                                                                                                              Keep on BOINCing...! :)

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                                                                                                                                                                                              Message 107983 - Posted 22 Nov 2010 14:24:39 UTC - in response to Message 107971.

                                                                                                                                                                                                Last modified: 22 Nov 2010 14:40:40 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                however Linux came out on top.

                                                                                                                                                                                                Would it not be more accurate to say that the compiler used for the Linux copy of the application beat out the one used for Windows?

                                                                                                                                                                                                Surely you don't think either OS has anywhere near 5% inherent overhead for this sort of work?

                                                                                                                                                                                                Can be.

                                                                                                                                                                                                For example, Linux has a O(0) ("zero-order") scheduler. That is, regardless of the number of jobs waiting to be scheduled, the Linux scheduler will schedule them all always in the same amount of time. If for example the Windows scheduler needs linear time ("O(1)") per number of jobs to do it's scheduling, that could easily cripple performance when scheduling thousands of jobs. Similarly so for other tasks such as process communication, memory management and so on...

                                                                                                                                                                                                For desktop use, with just a few tasks to manage, the most important aspects for kernel performance are reliability and security. The efficiency of how the kernel does things there is not so important. However, in a server or 'supercomputer' environment where very many tasks must be managed in parallel, good design (as with most things) can give a significant performance boost.


                                                                                                                                                                                                Happy crunchin',
                                                                                                                                                                                                Martin
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                                                                                                                                                                                                Message 107984 - Posted 22 Nov 2010 14:35:10 UTC - in response to Message 107972.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Last modified: 22 Nov 2010 14:37:30 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                  ... For KVM hardware problems, don't forget that the problem can be in a lead/connector and not just the box itself...

                                                                                                                                                                                                  ... But, wouldn't it be logical to determine that there is nothing wrong with the KVM or anything related to it since the problem is associated to only one OS on a dual-boot PC?...

                                                                                                                                                                                                  I've seen a dodgy connector where it would become intermittent only when you pushed one particular switch on a control panel. Pushing another switch remade the contact on the unassociated connector. Talk about dreaming metaphysical connections across the panel! A bit like turning on your house light switch for the lights but also the washing machine springing to life!! Disassembly and reassembly showed a short pin on one connector getting flexed out of it's socket as the panel flexed in a certain way. Flexing the panel another way pushed the troublesome pin back against the edge of the socket to make a good contact...

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Try swapping the leads around on the KVM, and swapping ports, to eliminate any one component/connector possibly being the problem.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  I can replicate the occurrence right now by starting up 2 more apps, in v10.10, on the i7.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  If consistently repeatable, then that must be a bug of some sort that needs tracing and squashing! I'm sure the kernel devs list will be interested in that one.


                                                                                                                                                                                                  But, the i7 has been BOINCing for better than 24 hours and I would like to see what the uptime will be when the WUs are finished. That is my main objective right now. When it's done, I will no longer be running v10.10, so the keyboard / mouse lock up issue is somewhat moot.


                                                                                                                                                                                                  Good going there and great if it fixes your problem.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  The KVM switch bug should at least be reported if only to warn others of the potential problem.


                                                                                                                                                                                                  Good luck!

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Happy crunchin',
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Martin
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                                                                                                                                                                                                  Message 108010 - Posted 23 Nov 2010 15:33:54 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Greetings everyone,

                                                                                                                                                                                                    *** UPDATE ***

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Well, BOINC, on the Linux side of the i7, has finished without the problem I was having on the WinXP side of things, save for the random mouse and keyboard lock up discussed previously. On to my clean re-installation of WinXP Pro. Which, by the way, will be a temporary gig until next year when I get Win7 Pro 64 bit. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Now, for a disturbing discovery: When I installed Kubuntu v10.10 for the dual-boot test purpose, I found that it was NOT installed where the install app said it was going, where I assumed it was going. It told me it would split my boot drive, drive c:\, in half and place Linux on the second half of the boot drive. WRONG!

                                                                                                                                                                                                    I just found out that the partitioning took place on my second drive, where I keep my backup stuff from Windoze, all my personal stuff. And, not only that, it made 2 partitions on the second half, which I assume would be the case under "normal" installation circumstances. So, now I have to reclaim those 2 partitions so that I have access to the FULL drive, through Windoze, and not just half of it. This will delay my clean re-installation of WinXP Pro!

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Murphy needs a good slapping upside the head! ;)

                                                                                                                                                                                                    @ Martin: I will keep observing the mouse and keyboard problem. Although it is not a problem through Windoze or the Core 2 Duo Linux PC, if I don't see anything, I will try to contact someone of the Kubuntu community to report the problem with v10.10. Although, I'm sure they already know, since I found so much about it on the Internet.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    By the way, the i7 with v10.10 ran for 37.5 hours before the next mouse and keyboard lock up, then another 17 hours, for BOINC to finish, without the lock up. And the problem observed when running BOINC in Windoze never appeared. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Keep on BOINCing...! :) (the i7 will be within the next 6 hours or so :) )

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                                                                                                                                                                                                    Message 108023 - Posted 24 Nov 2010 11:50:57 UTC - in response to Message 108010.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Greetings everyone,

                                                                                                                                                                                                      *** UPDATE ***

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Well, BOINC, on the Linux side of the i7, has finished without the problem I was having on the WinXP side of things, save for the random mouse and keyboard lock up discussed previously. On to my clean re-installation of WinXP Pro. Which, by the way, will be a temporary gig until next year when I get Win7 Pro 64 bit. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Now, for a disturbing discovery: When I installed Kubuntu v10.10 for the dual-boot test purpose, I found that it was NOT installed where the install app said it was going, where I assumed it was going. It told me it would split my boot drive, drive c:\, in half and place Linux on the second half of the boot drive. WRONG!

                                                                                                                                                                                                      I just found out that the partitioning took place on my second drive, where I keep my backup stuff from Windoze, all my personal stuff. And, not only that, it made 2 partitions on the second half, which I assume would be the case under "normal" installation circumstances. So, now I have to reclaim those 2 partitions so that I have access to the FULL drive, through Windoze, and not just half of it. This will delay my clean re-installation of WinXP Pro!

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Murphy needs a good slapping upside the head! ;)

                                                                                                                                                                                                      @ Martin: I will keep observing the mouse and keyboard problem. Although it is not a problem through Windoze or the Core 2 Duo Linux PC, if I don't see anything, I will try to contact someone of the Kubuntu community to report the problem with v10.10. Although, I'm sure they already know, since I found so much about it on the Internet.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      By the way, the i7 with v10.10 ran for 37.5 hours before the next mouse and keyboard lock up, then another 17 hours, for BOINC to finish, without the lock up. And the problem observed when running BOINC in Windoze never appeared. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Keep on BOINCing...! :) (the i7 will be within the next 6 hours or so :) )


                                                                                                                                                                                                      I wonder if the kvm switch is your Windows problem too, you say it ran just fine for 37.5 hours then again for 17 hours before it locked up under Linux. I wonder if it was locking up under windows but because of the way it locked up you had to reset the machine to make it work again? The way to know is to plug the keyboard and mouse in to the pc directly and let it run that way for as long as it does without crashing. Since you are happiest with Linux right now try that for the next 4 days, then switch to Windows and see how long it runs without crashing. If it makes it 4 days under Linux then I would guess that it fixed that problem, but Windows will be the key test, will it work or crash?

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                                                                                                                                                                                                      Message 108029 - Posted 24 Nov 2010 13:51:00 UTC - in response to Message 108023.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Greetings everyone,

                                                                                                                                                                                                        *** UPDATE ***

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Well, BOINC, on the Linux side of the i7, has finished without the problem I was having on the WinXP side of things, save for the random mouse and keyboard lock up discussed previously. On to my clean re-installation of WinXP Pro. Which, by the way, will be a temporary gig until next year when I get Win7 Pro 64 bit. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Now, for a disturbing discovery: When I installed Kubuntu v10.10 for the dual-boot test purpose, I found that it was NOT installed where the install app said it was going, where I assumed it was going. It told me it would split my boot drive, drive c:\, in half and place Linux on the second half of the boot drive. WRONG!

                                                                                                                                                                                                        I just found out that the partitioning took place on my second drive, where I keep my backup stuff from Windoze, all my personal stuff. And, not only that, it made 2 partitions on the second half, which I assume would be the case under "normal" installation circumstances. So, now I have to reclaim those 2 partitions so that I have access to the FULL drive, through Windoze, and not just half of it. This will delay my clean re-installation of WinXP Pro!

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Murphy needs a good slapping upside the head! ;)

                                                                                                                                                                                                        @ Martin: I will keep observing the mouse and keyboard problem. Although it is not a problem through Windoze or the Core 2 Duo Linux PC, if I don't see anything, I will try to contact someone of the Kubuntu community to report the problem with v10.10. Although, I'm sure they already know, since I found so much about it on the Internet.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        By the way, the i7 with v10.10 ran for 37.5 hours before the next mouse and keyboard lock up, then another 17 hours, for BOINC to finish, without the lock up. And the problem observed when running BOINC in Windoze never appeared. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Keep on BOINCing...! :) (the i7 will be within the next 6 hours or so :) )


                                                                                                                                                                                                        I wonder if the kvm switch is your Windows problem too, you say it ran just fine for 37.5 hours then again for 17 hours before it locked up under Linux. I wonder if it was locking up under windows but because of the way it locked up you had to reset the machine to make it work again? The way to know is to plug the keyboard and mouse in to the pc directly and let it run that way for as long as it does without crashing. Since you are happiest with Linux right now try that for the next 4 days, then switch to Windows and see how long it runs without crashing. If it makes it 4 days under Linux then I would guess that it fixed that problem, but Windows will be the key test, will it work or crash?

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Greetings Mikey,

                                                                                                                                                                                                        I cannot run the test you suggest since Linux no longer exists on the i7. But, the problem I had with the mouse and keyboard locking up in Linux, is now the least of my worries (see update below).

                                                                                                                                                                                                        *** UPDATE ***
                                                                                                                                                                                                        I have recovered all but 5.334 GB of the space on my second HDD where, for whatever odd reason, Kubuntu v10.10 was installed. Since both my HDDs are 500 GB drives, I'm not concerned with that unused 5 GB.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        During my clean re-installation of WinXP Pro, I decided to do the extended format of the boot drive, just to be sure there was no lingering bad code anywhere on it. Formatting took well over 2 hours to complete. WinXP installed without a problem. I installed my various drivers from my install CD that came with the MoBo. All went well, no artifacts appeared on the "cylon" splash screen. Then...

                                                                                                                                                                                                        I decided to install my nVIDIA driver(s) from the downloaded update version instead of from the CD that came with the video card. Guess what? Upon reboot, the artifact came back to the "cylon" screen. :( Ok, this tells me that there is a problem somewhere in the driver / software code driving my video card. I tried to roll back the driver to the one WinXP installed and was using only to find out that no driver files were backed up for that purpose. Bummer... :(

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Now, here's something a bit odd: It now takes a few minutes for my network icon to show up in the notification area. Before doing all the myriad updates from Micro$oft, it would appear very shortly after my firewall and virus scanner were running. It still shows up after, just a few minutes after, now.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        I have not installed BOINC yet and will wait until I can figure out how to fix my "video problem". The problem with uninstalling nVIDIA is that I will no longer have sound, not that that is a really important factor. I just hate seeing the yellow "?"s in Device Manager. ;) I really don't have much use for sound, yet. I fail to understand why nVIDIA would have anything whatsoever to do with sound. I assumed that installing the sound driver(s) from the MoBo CD would suffice, since the sound is an integrated device on the MoBo. Hmmm... Just had a thought: I wonder if I could peek around on my nVIDIA CD and find the files needed for the sound and somehow get them installed. Then again, what's to say that THEY aren't what causes the artifact to show up on the "cylon" splash screen. :/

                                                                                                                                                                                                        All in all, though, the i7 seems to be running just fine, despite what I have mentioned above. It boots faster, applications launch faster, etc.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Hmmm... I was just thinking of the past and seem to remember the artifact problem with WinXP Home on the Core 2 Duo as well. It, too, had a video card with nVIDIA technology and driver(s). Same with WinXP Pro on that same PC. Perhaps it is time to switch to another brand of video technology. ATI perhaps?

                                                                                                                                                                                                        At least my mouse and keyboard ain't locking up on me now... :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Keep on BOINCing...! :)
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                                                                                                                                                                                                        Message 108043 - Posted 25 Nov 2010 12:43:48 UTC - in response to Message 108029.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          ... the "cylon" splash screen. :/

                                                                                                                                                                                                          All in all, though, the i7 seems to be running just fine, despite what I have mentioned above. It boots faster, applications launch faster, etc.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          Hmmm... ...problem with WinXP Home on the Core 2 Duo as well. ... Same with WinXP Pro on that same PC...


                                                                                                                                                                                                          Is WinXP even supported still?

                                                                                                                                                                                                          For the windows problems, looks like you're down to checking out for BIOS updates and motherboard drivers.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          Quite an adventure!

                                                                                                                                                                                                          Good luck,
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Martin

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                                                                                                                                                                                                          Message 108045 - Posted 25 Nov 2010 13:27:08 UTC - in response to Message 108029.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            Greetings everyone,

                                                                                                                                                                                                            *** UPDATE ***

                                                                                                                                                                                                            Well, BOINC, on the Linux side of the i7, has finished without the problem I was having on the WinXP side of things, save for the random mouse and keyboard lock up discussed previously. On to my clean re-installation of WinXP Pro. Which, by the way, will be a temporary gig until next year when I get Win7 Pro 64 bit. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                            Now, for a disturbing discovery: When I installed Kubuntu v10.10 for the dual-boot test purpose, I found that it was NOT installed where the install app said it was going, where I assumed it was going. It told me it would split my boot drive, drive c:\, in half and place Linux on the second half of the boot drive. WRONG!

                                                                                                                                                                                                            I just found out that the partitioning took place on my second drive, where I keep my backup stuff from Windoze, all my personal stuff. And, not only that, it made 2 partitions on the second half, which I assume would be the case under "normal" installation circumstances. So, now I have to reclaim those 2 partitions so that I have access to the FULL drive, through Windoze, and not just half of it. This will delay my clean re-installation of WinXP Pro!

                                                                                                                                                                                                            Murphy needs a good slapping upside the head! ;)

                                                                                                                                                                                                            @ Martin: I will keep observing the mouse and keyboard problem. Although it is not a problem through Windoze or the Core 2 Duo Linux PC, if I don't see anything, I will try to contact someone of the Kubuntu community to report the problem with v10.10. Although, I'm sure they already know, since I found so much about it on the Internet.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            By the way, the i7 with v10.10 ran for 37.5 hours before the next mouse and keyboard lock up, then another 17 hours, for BOINC to finish, without the lock up. And the problem observed when running BOINC in Windoze never appeared. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                            Keep on BOINCing...! :) (the i7 will be within the next 6 hours or so :) )


                                                                                                                                                                                                            I wonder if the kvm switch is your Windows problem too, you say it ran just fine for 37.5 hours then again for 17 hours before it locked up under Linux. I wonder if it was locking up under windows but because of the way it locked up you had to reset the machine to make it work again? The way to know is to plug the keyboard and mouse in to the pc directly and let it run that way for as long as it does without crashing. Since you are happiest with Linux right now try that for the next 4 days, then switch to Windows and see how long it runs without crashing. If it makes it 4 days under Linux then I would guess that it fixed that problem, but Windows will be the key test, will it work or crash?

                                                                                                                                                                                                            Greetings Mikey,

                                                                                                                                                                                                            I cannot run the test you suggest since Linux no longer exists on the i7. But, the problem I had with the mouse and keyboard locking up in Linux, is now the least of my worries (see update below).

                                                                                                                                                                                                            *** UPDATE ***
                                                                                                                                                                                                            I have recovered all but 5.334 GB of the space on my second HDD where, for whatever odd reason, Kubuntu v10.10 was installed. Since both my HDDs are 500 GB drives, I'm not concerned with that unused 5 GB.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            During my clean re-installation of WinXP Pro, I decided to do the extended format of the boot drive, just to be sure there was no lingering bad code anywhere on it. Formatting took well over 2 hours to complete. WinXP installed without a problem. I installed my various drivers from my install CD that came with the MoBo. All went well, no artifacts appeared on the "cylon" splash screen. Then...

                                                                                                                                                                                                            I decided to install my nVIDIA driver(s) from the downloaded update version instead of from the CD that came with the video card. Guess what? Upon reboot, the artifact came back to the "cylon" screen. :( Ok, this tells me that there is a problem somewhere in the driver / software code driving my video card. I tried to roll back the driver to the one WinXP installed and was using only to find out that no driver files were backed up for that purpose. Bummer... :(

                                                                                                                                                                                                            Now, here's something a bit odd: It now takes a few minutes for my network icon to show up in the notification area. Before doing all the myriad updates from Micro$oft, it would appear very shortly after my firewall and virus scanner were running. It still shows up after, just a few minutes after, now.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            I have not installed BOINC yet and will wait until I can figure out how to fix my "video problem". The problem with uninstalling nVIDIA is that I will no longer have sound, not that that is a really important factor. I just hate seeing the yellow "?"s in Device Manager. ;) I really don't have much use for sound, yet. I fail to understand why nVIDIA would have anything whatsoever to do with sound. I assumed that installing the sound driver(s) from the MoBo CD would suffice, since the sound is an integrated device on the MoBo. Hmmm... Just had a thought: I wonder if I could peek around on my nVIDIA CD and find the files needed for the sound and somehow get them installed. Then again, what's to say that THEY aren't what causes the artifact to show up on the "cylon" splash screen. :/

                                                                                                                                                                                                            All in all, though, the i7 seems to be running just fine, despite what I have mentioned above. It boots faster, applications launch faster, etc.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            Hmmm... I was just thinking of the past and seem to remember the artifact problem with WinXP Home on the Core 2 Duo as well. It, too, had a video card with nVIDIA technology and driver(s). Same with WinXP Pro on that same PC. Perhaps it is time to switch to another brand of video technology. ATI perhaps?

                                                                                                                                                                                                            At least my mouse and keyboard ain't locking up on me now... :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                            Keep on BOINCing...! :)


                                                                                                                                                                                                            Are you trying to use the 'latest and greatest' Nvidia drivers? If so drop back a step or 2 or even 3 and see if they work better, sometimes the 'latest and greatest' is not! As for the network icon do the Windows updates, ALL OF THEM, and I thought the 'dot net' stuff was part of that fix. As for your sound card try doing a manual update thru the Device Manager and tell it look in Windows Update when it asks.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            Things ALWAYS run faster after a fresh install because none of the little things that we load over the long term are loaded yet. Try to keep things like quicktime, adobe reader, etc, etc, etc from loading prior to you actually needing them. You can do this by editing the Msconfig file, you get there by clicking start, then run and typing msconfig on the line and pressing enter. BE CAREFUL THOUGH. Whatever you change, and ONLY CHANGE things in the Startup section, WILL affect the way the machine runs and IF it boots!!! I ALWAYS uncheck the quicktime, itunes, and adobe stuff but there are others you can safely uncheck too. BE CAREFUL, do some Google searches on what each thing actually is, some have funky names but ARE ESSENTIAL!!! If you uncheck the anti-virus you are unprotected, if you uncheck your printer it won't work, etc, etc!! The speed of todays machines, and your i7 in particular, reduces the need for alot of the preloaded stuff! How fast is fast?! It will also give you more 'resources' for other things if they are not loaded at boot time. This is MY OPINION and others WILL feel differently, but this works for me.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            Metod, S56RKO
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                                                                                                                                                                                                            Message 108053 - Posted 25 Nov 2010 20:54:35 UTC - in response to Message 107983.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              however Linux came out on top.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Would it not be more accurate to say that the compiler used for the Linux copy of the application beat out the one used for Windows?

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Surely you don't think either OS has anywhere near 5% inherent overhead for this sort of work?

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Can be.


                                                                                                                                                                                                              That particular outcome (Linux being faster than Win) was due to bug in Windows clustering software or somesuch. When they ran Linpack benchmarking software, Windows was not able to run it on all nodes while Linux was able to do it. When they ran it on 90% of nodes (or something like that), Windows was in fact a bit faster than Linux. They have reportedly squashed the bug that prevented them from running benchmark on all nodes but that was to late for publishing result.
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                                                                                                                                                                                                              Message 108054 - Posted 25 Nov 2010 20:59:34 UTC - in response to Message 107984.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                Last modified: 25 Nov 2010 21:01:42 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                I can replicate the occurrence right now by starting up 2 more apps, in v10.10, on the i7.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                If consistently repeatable, then that must be a bug of some sort that needs tracing and squashing! I'm sure the kernel devs list will be interested in that one.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                Just today I've encountered something similar on Ubuntu 10.04: keyboard seemed to be dead. It was not really, I could switch to console using [ctrl]-[alt]-[F1] and keyboard was working there. When switching back to X, keyboard went dead.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                The culprit was hung rdesktop application. When I forcibly terminated that app, keyboard returned to life. I guess many (if not every) app could lock up keyboard under X ...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                [edit]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                BTW, Ubuntu LTS happens every 2 years. Current LTS is 10.04, so next LTS will be 12.04. If they stick to half-year release cycle, which they are re-considering.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                [/edit]
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                Message 108058 - Posted 25 Nov 2010 22:25:48 UTC - in response to Message 108053.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  They have reportedly squashed the bug that prevented them from running benchmark on all nodes but that was to late for publishing result.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Sounds like I was wrong in blaming the compiler, but possibly right in doubting this was some fundamental Windows efficiency flaw?

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Message 108100 - Posted 27 Nov 2010 1:38:49 UTC - in response to Message 108058.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Last modified: 27 Nov 2010 1:40:40 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    They have reportedly squashed the bug that prevented them from running benchmark on all nodes but that was to late for publishing result.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sounds like I was wrong in blaming the compiler, but possibly right in doubting this was some fundamental Windows efficiency flaw?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Well, looks like the full story can be read in various ways...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Software bug derailed Windows bid to top Linux in supercomputing speed

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ... One reader who commented on the blog post joked that Tokyo officials "didn't have enough licenses to run [Windows] on that many."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    But it turns out a software bug prevented the Windows HPC Server run from matching Linux's speed and ability to run across more nodes. The bug was not in Windows HPC Server itself but rather in a software package Microsoft designed to run the Top 500 benchmarking test. ...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ... the Windows run failed due to a memory initialization bug. ...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ... Whether Windows would have beaten Linux if not for the software bug is "a mystery that's engulfed in history, because they failed at the very last moment," he says.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Matsuoka is interested in why Windows was able to outperform Linux in running smaller problems. Since the hardware was the same for both runs, it must come down to either the operating system or differences between the customized Linpack software packages.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    "We haven't had the time to do the side-by-side comparison," Matsuoka says. "We'll probably do that and publish a paper." ...



                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Makes for an interesting story!...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Happy crunchin',
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Martin
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Message 108270 - Posted 1 Dec 2010 18:19:43 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Greetings everyone,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      *** UPDATE ***

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Been a while, I know. But, I believe I have found the ultimate reason for my problem on the i7...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      nVIDIA has a bug or bugs in all the drivers for this video card!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1.) I install the one from the CD, that came with the card... problem!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2.) I install an updated version from the manufacturers website... problem.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      3.) I find an even newer updated version on nVIDIA's website and install it... problem.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Without nVIDIA's driver(s) installed, there seems to be no problem, up to the point where Windoze insists on installing nVIDIA's driver(s). I feel like I'm in a catch 22 situation and it SUX!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I have yet to install BOINC since doing my clean install. I wanted to check the performance before I did that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Is there a "generic" Windows video driver that I can use and keep nVIDIA out of the loop? I really do not need all the "extras" that comes with having nVIDIA installed. I have one more idea I'm going to try. I'm going to uninstall the driver from within properties.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Keep on BOINCing...! :) (perhaps someday, again, on the i7)

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Message 108271 - Posted 1 Dec 2010 20:59:23 UTC - in response to Message 107947.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Last modified: 1 Dec 2010 21:00:25 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Also XP is about to be dumped as far as Windows Updates goes, meaning it will be wide open to all viruses, trojans, etc, etc because MS will NOT be providing updates. Just as happened to Windows 2000 and 98 etc, etc. You MUST update and win7 IS a good choice!



                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Not true on all counts Mikey.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I have run Win2K pro on a PC and not had any attacks that my hardware and software firewall cannot deal with. True, it has had no MS patches since June last year, but security can be maintained without them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Microsoft will be supporting XP with security patches until March 2014.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ____________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Shih-Tzu are clever, cuddly, playful and rule!! Jack Russell are feisty!

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Message 108282 - Posted 2 Dec 2010 8:11:35 UTC - in response to Message 108270.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Last modified: 2 Dec 2010 9:06:15 UTC



                                                                                                                                                                                                                          What is the "... problem!"?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Try the small tests ("demos") in:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          [GPU Tool] GPU Caps Viewer and GPU Shark (4 MB, no install needed if you get the ZIP file)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          http://www.ozone3d.net/gpu_caps_viewer/

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          http://www.geeks3d.com/20101105/gpu-tool-gpu-caps-viewer-1-9-4-and-gpu-shark-0-3-2-updated-with-gtx-580-support/

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          (Shows also GPU capabilities and Temperatures)





                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Is this the last driver you try?:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp-260.99-whql-driver.html


                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ____________



                                                                                                                                                                                                                          - ALF - "Find out what you don't do well ..... then don't do it!" :)

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Message 108283 - Posted 2 Dec 2010 9:45:18 UTC - in response to Message 108270.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Is there a "generic" Windows video driver that I can use and keep nVIDIA out of the loop? I really do not need all the "extras" that comes with having nVIDIA installed. I have one more idea I'm going to try. I'm going to uninstall the driver from within properties.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Did you try the Custom install (choose components + clean install)?:





                                                                                                                                                                                                                            http://blogs.nvidia.com/2010/09/introducing-the-release-260-family-of-drivers/



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                                                                                                                                                                                                                            - ALF - "Find out what you don't do well ..... then don't do it!" :)

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Message 108308 - Posted 3 Dec 2010 16:50:03 UTC - in response to Message 108282.



                                                                                                                                                                                                                              What is the "... problem!"?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Try the small tests ("demos") in:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              [GPU Tool] GPU Caps Viewer and GPU Shark (4 MB, no install needed if you get the ZIP file)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://www.ozone3d.net/gpu_caps_viewer/

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://www.geeks3d.com/20101105/gpu-tool-gpu-caps-viewer-1-9-4-and-gpu-shark-0-3-2-updated-with-gtx-580-support/

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              (Shows also GPU capabilities and Temperatures)


                                                                                                                                                                                                                              [-[ image snipped ]-]


                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Is this the last driver you try?:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp-260.99-whql-driver.html


                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Greetings BilBG,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              The problem? I'm starting to think I haven't figured out the problem. With one minor annoyance, as long as I keep the uptime of this i7 under 36 hours, it works fine. The minor problem has recently manifested and is the same as that which I mentioned long ago in this thread. My cursor will suddenly jump across the screen. While on a website, occasionally if I just move my mouse the slightest, the website will jump back a page or 2 as if I hit the back button, which I do not do.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Now, with this new video card, I'm seeing the same thing. I thought it was the old card, since the problem stopped when I installed this new one. Now, I'm not so sure the old one was the problem either. I have run torture tests on my hardware and no problems are ever revealed. I am at a loss as to what is wrong, which is why I suspect the video driver.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Yes, I have downloaded and tried v260.99 of the video driver. I get the exact same results, no problem gets cleared up.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              And FRAKING Windoze!!! I try to cancel out of installing any video driver and it somehow installs nVIDIA!!! Without MY consent! :( Now I have nVIDIA's control panel and no way to get rid of it. It doesn't show up in Add/Remove Programs. Where Windoze is getting nVIDIA is beyond me. It's not getting it from the CD and the update driver is on my second HDD.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I'm thinking that I am going to have to start from scratch, again, with a fresh clean install of Windoze... :( I really hate that "Found new hardware" routine, too, especially in a case where I am trying to figure out where a problem exists. I have NEVER had this much of a problem with a computer before.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Anyway, I try your suggestion and post an update. Thanks! :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Keep on BOINCing...! :) (only on my Linux PC!)




                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I will try your custom install suggestion and see if that gets me anywhere.
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Message 108309 - Posted 3 Dec 2010 16:56:23 UTC - in response to Message 108308.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Occaisionally my mouse will jump around a bit while I am doing Einstein. It is a very CPU intensive application, and it may not release the resources easily as it is pegged at 100% usage.. Also, I think you should go ahead and install the latest Nvidia driver. Without that, your video card won't crunch at all, and certainly won't respond correctly in other situations. The jumping mouse may be something you just have to live with. Mine does it to from time to time.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Steve
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ____________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Crunching as member of The GPU Users Group team.

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Message 108313 - Posted 3 Dec 2010 20:33:27 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I'm still suspicious of the KVM box... Or even of damaged leads/connectors to/from it...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Or...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Have you got any power adaptors resting against ANY cables to your computer. The transformers or switch mode PSUs in them can cause some very curious interference effects on any cables within a two or three cm or so distance...


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Go back to a minimal system and work up from there, one change at a time?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Good luck!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Happy crunchin',
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Martin


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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Message 108317 - Posted 4 Dec 2010 11:04:37 UTC - in response to Message 108308.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Last modified: 4 Dec 2010 11:50:14 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ... My cursor will suddenly jump across the screen. While on a website, occasionally if I just move my mouse the slightest, the website will jump back a page or 2 as if I hit the back button, which I do not do.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I don't think the mouse "effects" are connected with the video driver.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Is this PS/2 or USB mouse?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Try another mouse directly connected to the PS/2 port (try old mechanical (ball) mouse (non-optical) if you have one)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Do you use Opera browser?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    It has Mouse Gestures (adopted also in some of other browsers):
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://www.google.com/search?hl=bg&q=mouse+gestures&aq=0&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=mouse+ges&gs_rfai=
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mouse_gesture

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    "The mouse gesture for "back" in Opera – the user holds down the right mouse button, moves the mouse left, and releases the right mouse button.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Notes: This works properly only if mouse gestures are enabled from the Tools→ Preferences→ Advanced→ Shortcuts menu and if there is a previously visited website to return to that was viewed in the same web browser tab. The gesture's function is the same as using the Alt+Shift keyboard shortcut, clicking the "Back" icon from the browser GUI or pressing the "Back" keyboard key on an extended keyboard layout."


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    It looks like your mouse driver thinks that you press right mouse button and move mouse to the left (I use this regularly in Opera).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    As you also had problems with mouse/keyboard lock-ups in Linux - check in this (cheap and easy) direction -
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    change mouse & keyboard, do not use KVM (or use it only for Video/Monitor)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    As you may have hardware problems (e.g. "cold solder" joint) around PS/2 ports try also USB mouse & keyboard.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soldering#Soldering_defects


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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Message 108318 - Posted 4 Dec 2010 11:15:22 UTC - in response to Message 108308.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      And FRAKING Windoze!!! I try to cancel out of installing any video driver and it somehow installs nVIDIA!!! Without MY consent! :( Now I have nVIDIA's control panel and no way to get rid of it. It doesn't show up in Add/Remove Programs. Where Windoze is getting nVIDIA is beyond me. It's not getting it from the CD and the update driver is on my second HDD.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      It could be from the internet and Windows Update, I know you said you are using XP but maybe Windows is finding your card and downloading the latest drivers it knows about 'for you'. SP3 and later updates try to bring some of Win7's 'better' features to XP and this is one of them, although clearly not in your case!

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Message 108342 - Posted 5 Dec 2010 13:48:02 UTC - in response to Message 108309.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Occaisionally my mouse will jump around a bit while I am doing Einstein. It is a very CPU intensive application, and it may not release the resources easily as it is pegged at 100% usage.. Also, I think you should go ahead and install the latest Nvidia driver. Without that, your video card won't crunch at all, and certainly won't respond correctly in other situations. The jumping mouse may be something you just have to live with. Mine does it to from time to time.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Steve

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Greetings Steve,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        First, I hope the season is treating you well. We had Thanksgiving dinner 3 days in a row, just to eliminate the massive leftovers. :) We still have the turkey carcass that is frozen to make a really great soup later next year. Gotten to be quite a tradition with us. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Ok, I see 1 major flaw in your scenario above: I'm not running BOINC on the i7. I don't even have it installed and won't until I can get to the bottom of this predicament. I am STILL wondering why this problem just happen to appear when I started re-crunching Einstein again. I wasn't even attached with the i7. Since the problem persists even without BOINC installed, kinda makes me think... .oO(hardware) But, I have pretty much eliminated the hardware as being the problem.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I remember having this same problem several years ago, when running on a P4 CPU and such, I think it was in 04 or 05. I cannot for the life of me remember what was causing the problem then or how I even fixed it. I do remember upgrading from WinME to WinXP Home Edition sometime around then. Whether that was the fix or not, I cannot remember. I also remember this happening with my Core 2 Duo system a few years ago. Now that seemed to be fixed when I upgraded from WinXP Home to WinXP Pro. Maybe upgrading to Win7 Pro this time will be the next fix. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I did go ahead and installed the latest nVIDIA driver in the manner suggested by BilBg. I still get the artifact on the cylon boot splash screen. The only time it does not appear is when no nVIDIA driver is installed, such as after doing my clean re-install of Windoze. As soon as nVIDIA is installed, the artifact re-appears. I also haven't noticed the "jumping" cursor thing either, without nVIDIA. This, too, in my opinion, would seem to allay Martin's suspicion that my KVM switch is at fault. Sorry Martin... ;) The "jumping" mouse, I can live with, it's the sudden jumping back a page or 2 on websites that has me worried. If I'm in the middle of something like, say, making this post and I get jumped back a couple pages, I may lose what I have already entered, unless I remember to just hit the forward button to get back (forward) to where I was.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I do have 2 pieces of hardware not eliminated, my UPS and my PSU. I do know that the UPS battery needs replacing. As for the PSU, well, my system utility tells me that voltages are well withing established parameters:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        VCore: 1.12v +3.3V: 3.38v +5V: 5.18v +12V: 12.10v

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        The PSU is a 550W, if I remember correctly. According to this page, even adding extra stuff, my PSU is more than adequate to handle the load. As for the UPS, I haven't located a replacement battery yet.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        One last thing, I don't run CUDA WUs. So that's not an issue. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Thanks Steve! :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Keep on BOINCing...! :)

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        CMDR Siran d'Vel'nahr XO
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Message 108344 - Posted 5 Dec 2010 14:29:31 UTC - in response to Message 108313.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I'm still suspicious of the KVM box... Or even of damaged leads/connectors to/from it...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Or...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Have you got any power adaptors resting against ANY cables to your computer. The transformers or switch mode PSUs in them can cause some very curious interference effects on any cables within a two or three cm or so distance...


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Go back to a minimal system and work up from there, one change at a time?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Good luck!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Happy crunchin',
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Martin

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Greetings Martin,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I hope the Holiday season is treating you well. Mine is, so far... :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Please see my reply to Steve, below (or above), on the possible KVM issue. One thing I forgot to mention, when I stated seeing this problem on the Core 2 Duo PC, is that I was running it solo without a KVM switch, since the KVM was unneeded. :) I believe that pretty much eliminates the KVM switch, wouldn't you agree? :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          One other little tidbit I have forgotten to mention in all this is the fact that I have always run nVIDIA video card technology exclusively on all PCs I have built. Perhaps another good test would be to switch to the ATI technology video card. I believe that's the other competing technology, correct? :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          No power adapters are anywhere near any data or other non-power cables.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I did the clean re-installation of Windoze. Even spent about an hour and a half or so doing a complete format of the boot drive, just to be sure that any anomalous code was eliminated beyond the point of possible resurrection. With Windoze at bare minimum and no other programs installed, no specialty device drivers installed, there was no problem.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I started installing the system drivers, one at a time, observing how the system ran afterwords. Everything seemed to be just fine, until... I installed the nVIDIA driver from CD, problems reappeared. I found an updated version on the card manufacturer's website, downloaded and installed it, problems still existed. I found an even newer driver for the card on nVIDIA's website, downloaded and installed it, problems still exist. I really hate pointing fingers, but my finger tends to be pointing at nVIDIA video drivers as the source of my problems. Without them, no problems, with them, problems.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          What more can I do except that which I mentioned above, switch to another video technology? Then... If the problem STILL exists... Well, the i7 may have to be melted down and converted into a boat anchor. ;)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Thanks Martin! :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Keep on BOINCing...! :)

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          CMDR Siran d'Vel'nahr XO
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Message 108347 - Posted 5 Dec 2010 15:15:12 UTC - in response to Message 108317.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ... My cursor will suddenly jump across the screen. While on a website, occasionally if I just move my mouse the slightest, the website will jump back a page or 2 as if I hit the back button, which I do not do.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I don't think the mouse "effects" are connected with the video driver.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Is this PS/2 or USB mouse?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Try another mouse directly connected to the PS/2 port (try old mechanical (ball) mouse (non-optical) if you have one)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Do you use Opera browser?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            It has Mouse Gestures (adopted also in some of other browsers):
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            http://www.google.com/search?hl=bg&q=mouse+gestures&aq=0&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=mouse+ges&gs_rfai=
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mouse_gesture

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            "The mouse gesture for "back" in Opera – the user holds down the right mouse button, moves the mouse left, and releases the right mouse button.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Notes: This works properly only if mouse gestures are enabled from the Tools→ Preferences→ Advanced→ Shortcuts menu and if there is a previously visited website to return to that was viewed in the same web browser tab. The gesture's function is the same as using the Alt+Shift keyboard shortcut, clicking the "Back" icon from the browser GUI or pressing the "Back" keyboard key on an extended keyboard layout."


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            It looks like your mouse driver thinks that you press right mouse button and move mouse to the left (I use this regularly in Opera).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            As you also had problems with mouse/keyboard lock-ups in Linux - check in this (cheap and easy) direction -
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            change mouse & keyboard, do not use KVM (or use it only for Video/Monitor)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            As you may have hardware problems (e.g. "cold solder" joint) around PS/2 ports try also USB mouse & keyboard.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soldering#Soldering_defects


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Greetings BilBg,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            My wireless keyboard and mouse is a set. The mouse is PS/2 and the keyboard USB to PS/2 using the supplied adapter when I got the set back in 05 or so. The problems exist with or without the KVM and whether I attach a wired keyboard and mouse, with and without the KVM. 2 different KVMs and sets of cables for them too.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I don't use Opera, so no mouse gestures to get in the way of things. ;)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I really don't see my luck being so bad that I would continually get hardware that has bad or cold solder joints. This problem has happened with at least 3 motherboards, 3 video cards, 3 different cases/PSUs, 5 different OSs, 3 of which are Windoze, at least 3 different sets of keyboards and mice. The one thing that all situations have in common is the nVIDIA video technology.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I am STILL baffled as to why this current problem didn't show itself until after I re-attached to Einstein and started running it. I had let Windoze run for about 36 days, a few months back, while BOINCing SETI. No problems! A Windoze update caused the re-boot. I re-attach to Einstein and BAM! Weird, just weird! ;)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Thanks BilBg! :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Keep on BOINCing...! :)

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            CMDR Siran d'Vel'nahr XO
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Message 108348 - Posted 5 Dec 2010 15:28:51 UTC - in response to Message 108318.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              And FRAKING Windoze!!! I try to cancel out of installing any video driver and it somehow installs nVIDIA!!! Without MY consent! :( Now I have nVIDIA's control panel and no way to get rid of it. It doesn't show up in Add/Remove Programs. Where Windoze is getting nVIDIA is beyond me. It's not getting it from the CD and the update driver is on my second HDD.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              It could be from the internet and Windows Update, I know you said you are using XP but maybe Windows is finding your card and downloading the latest drivers it knows about 'for you'. SP3 and later updates try to bring some of Win7's 'better' features to XP and this is one of them, although clearly not in your case!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Greetings Mikey,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Ok, that makes sense. But...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Why won't Windoze allow me to use my Logitech keyboard/mouse driver(s)? For some reason, the original CD seems to be "blank". I know it is not, it's just that the program will not auto-start and Windoze Explorer shows nothing on the disk. Actually, it doesn't even show a disk in the drive. I tested with another disk and the auto-start worked fine, and Explorer saw the disk. I still need to test the disk in another PC. So...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I downloaded the software and "installed" with it, but Windoze continues to use its keyboard and mouse drivers. No matter what I do, I cannot get Windoze to use the Logitech drivers.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Windoze allows other drivers to be used, why not Logitech? Go figure... :(

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks Mikey! :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Keep on BOINCing...! :)

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              CMDR Siran d'Vel'nahr XO
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Message 108349 - Posted 5 Dec 2010 15:59:57 UTC - in response to Message 108344.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Last modified: 5 Dec 2010 16:32:56 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I'm still suspicious of the KVM box... Or even of damaged leads/connectors to/from it...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Martin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Please see my reply to Steve, below (or above), on the possible KVM issue. One thing I forgot to mention, when I stated seeing this problem on the Core 2 Duo PC, is that I was running it solo without a KVM switch, since the KVM was unneeded. :) I believe that pretty much eliminates the KVM switch, wouldn't you agree? :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                You obviously don't want to try new (another) mouse and keyboard connected directly to the computer.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                (Edit: you posted you tried it while I write this post)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Try at least to move the cables (up-down, left-right) to check for bad contact
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                - bad contacting of any parts that "just contact" (are not permanently connected (soldered))
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                is (as you probably know) the most common cause of hardware malfunction.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Do you see cursor jumping when you move/bend the cables?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ... but my finger tends to be pointing at nVIDIA video drivers as the source of my problems. Without them, no problems, with them, problems.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                What IRQ is assigned to Video card With/Without NVIDIA drivers installed?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                (look in Device Manager and System Information utility)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Is the IRQ shared with another device (USB, LAN, Sound card, PS/2, ...)?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                (Even if the IRQ is shared you will see (in Device Manager) "No conflicts; Device is working properly" -
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                don't mind this info, check in System Information - IRQs -> Conflicts/Sharing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                )

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Do you have add-in cards (Sound card, TV tuner, LAN, ...) in PCI/PCIe slots?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                If you have - remove them and leave only the Video card inside (for test).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                (or move them to another slot; move also the Video card if you have another slot suitable)


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I still get the artifact on the cylon boot splash screen. The only time it does not appear is when no nVIDIA driver is installed, such as after doing my clean re-install of Windoze. As soon as nVIDIA is installed, the artifact re-appears.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Can you make photo (and post it) as I don't know what "cylon" and what "artifact" you are talking about.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Edit:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I don't use Opera, so no mouse gestures to get in the way of things. ;)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Try it - maybe your browser have mouse gestures installed behind your back ;)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                (press and hold the right mouse button, move the mouse to the left, release the right mouse button (if it works will have the same effect as [<- Backspace] key))


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I downloaded the software (Logitech drivers) and "installed" with it, but Windoze continues to use its keyboard and mouse drivers. No matter what I do, I cannot get Windoze to use the Logitech drivers.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Most probably this is a "feature" of the Logitech drivers - during the installation (and maybe also during every startup (after reboot))
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                they want to see Logitech hardware attached (so you can't use their drivers with something non-Logitech)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Try to attach the Logitech keyboard and mouse directly to the computer ports -
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                maybe the Logitech drivers can't see the Logitech hardware through the KVM?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ____________


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                - ALF - "Find out what you don't do well ..... then don't do it!" :)

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Message 108354 - Posted 5 Dec 2010 19:12:57 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Last modified: 5 Dec 2010 19:13:58 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  When I was building "Piggy", I had a problem with my Killawatt meter causing a BSOD every time I started to crunch. I had to remove it until I had time to troubleshoot the situation. I replaced one part afer another, but what made the biggest difference was the PSU. I had an 800 watt PSU, and my voltages were fine like yours, but there may have been an AC ripple getting through that was causing the havoc. I would suggest trying another power supply, and testing it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I must admit that the jumping mouse problem never happend to me when I'm not crunching, so hardware is suspected. Hundreds of others use similar hardware and software without that problem, so I'm really beginning to suspect hardware failure. I don't think the Nvidia driver is the problem, but causes it to show up. A year ago I was running a GTX 295 with what ever drivers the crunching community suggested. My screen would go blank, and then recover. Occaisionally my system went BSOD. I gave away the 295 when I got my 480's. It is with another cruncher, and doing fine at the moment. Newer drivers have been released which I think took care of the problem.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I am really beginning to think you have a power supply problem. There may be an AC ripple on your lines, or there may be a failing solder connection somewhere inside. If you are able to swap ou the PSU for another one it would be worth the test. Since you don't have to be crunching for the problem to show up, a smaller psu would suit the test just so you could be sure it was the psu.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Steve
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ____________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Message 108357 - Posted 5 Dec 2010 20:02:15 UTC - in response to Message 108347.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ... I really don't see my luck being so bad that I would continually get hardware that has bad or cold solder joints. This problem has happened with at least 3 motherboards, 3 video cards, 3 different cases/PSUs, 5 different OSs, 3 of which are Windoze, at least 3 different sets of keyboards and mice. The one thing that all situations have in common is the nVIDIA video technology.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I am STILL baffled as to why this current problem didn't show itself until after I re-attached to Einstein and started running it. I had let Windoze run for about 36 days, a few months back, while BOINCing SETI. No problems! A Windoze update caused the re-boot. I re-attach to Einstein and BAM! Weird, just weird! ;) ...


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Brief points:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    There has to be something that is the common point of failure between all your changes. Either that or you have been suffering very improbable random bad luck...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    An old or overloaded PSU is a good guess. The voltages can be fine but what you won't see is whether the ripple noise kills you. Also, any poor power connectors, or unbalanced loading across the multiple PSU leads?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I've never trusted wireless keyboards...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    So... A Windows update and then it all goes wrong?...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    And if there were problems with the graphics drivers or graphics card, I'm sure there would very quickly be a hell of a lot of noise about it on the web forums!


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    So...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    What does that leave?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Failure after installing the graphics drivers might just be a symptom that your PSU is being strained, or interconnect wiring is overloaded, or something is getting too hot, merely as a coincidence of the graphics card being used.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Shared interrupts on the motherboard used to be a problem but I thought all that had been solved long ago, even in Windows...


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    What holidays? Here in the UK we've to wait a few weeks yet. Is this clever Marketing so that not all of the known world shuts down on the same day?...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Good luck,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Martin

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Message 108362 - Posted 5 Dec 2010 23:53:39 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Last modified: 6 Dec 2010 0:04:29 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Greetings everyone,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      *** UPDATE ***

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Ok, after reading today's posts, I took it to the extreme! :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      01.) I shut down the Linux and Windoze PCs.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      02.) I pulled the Linux PC out and took it to the kitchen table. I removed the side panel, took it and my can of air outside, into the cold, and blew the dust accumulation out of it. I then brought it back into the warmth of the kitchen and placed it on the table.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      03.) I removed all the power cables and removed the relatively new 550W PSU and set the Linux PC aside.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      04.) I pulled the Windoze PC out and took it to the kitchen table. I removed the side panels and since it wasn't long since I was in it last, did not take it out into the cold.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      05.) I removed the memory sticks, pulled one of the HDD data cables and then all the power cables and removed the 3 year old 550W PSU and replaced it with the newer PSU. Since the modular cables for both PSUs were not interchangeable, I commenced hooking up the new cables to the PC devices.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      06.) I installed the panels and took the PC back to the other room. I removed the KVM switch and the transceiver for the wireless keyboard and mouse. I then started hooking the various cables back up to the back of the PC, including my PS/2 keyboard and USB mouse.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      07.) I turned on the monitor and hit the power switch on the PC. I heard 1 long beep and 2 short ones. .oO(Oh crap, now what!) Looked for the code in my MoBo manual. "No memory found on board." .oO(Oh crap, I forgot to replace the memory sticks!)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      08.) I pulled the PC and re-installed the memory sticks, oh, and I hooked up my HDD data cable too. Forgot I pulled it to get it out of the way too.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      09.) Put the PC back, hooking everything back up. Hit the power switch...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      10.) Booted into Windoze. Artifact still shows up on the cylon splash screen. Crap! No mouse! Had it plugged into a port on the front, hooked it to a port on the back and it came to life.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I really, really, really, really, really hate being wired to my PC with this mouse and keyboard!!! :( And not only that, this keyboard is so very, very slow when trying to forward/back space through text!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Anyway, since the jumping mouse cursor does not jump on command, I will have to observe the PC when I am doing my "normal" routines on it. I have not seen it jump yet, but that's not to say that it won't.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      The voltages for this PSU are virtually identical to that which I reported this morning for the other PSU, virtual in that they are within established parameters.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      If I don't see the jumping cursor by tomorrow morning, I will replace the wired for the wireless keyboard and mouse and see what happens then.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      My computer systems are set up, physically, in such a way that being wired is most uncomfortable. Beside that, I hate being tethered! Think of it in terms of the cell phone. Many people are ditching their home phone because of the freedom that the cell gives them. Granted, there are "cordless" phones, true, but they have a limited range. You cannot be on the phone with grandma and have to run down to the store for some milk at the same time. You can with a cell.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Anyway, I'll post another update tomorrow with my findings. .oO(I hate this keyboard! It's too noisy and I keep hitting wrong keys! :( )

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      [edit]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      By the way, the Linux PC remains in pieces on the kitchen table and will remain so until after this round of testing...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      [/edit]

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Keep on BOINCing...! :)
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      CMDR Siran d'Vel'nahr XO
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Message 108363 - Posted 6 Dec 2010 0:10:50 UTC - in response to Message 108354.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Last modified: 6 Dec 2010 0:26:47 UTC



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        The AC ripple (surge) can be caused also by some appliance connected to the same AC line (outlet on the same fuse).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        It is advisable not to use refrigerator, air conditioner, washing machine, vacuum cleaner, microwave oven, ...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        on the same AC line with the computer.


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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        - ALF - "Find out what you don't do well ..... then don't do it!" :)

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Message 108366 - Posted 6 Dec 2010 1:37:46 UTC - in response to Message 108363.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Last modified: 6 Dec 2010 1:38:09 UTC



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The AC ripple (surge) can be caused also by some appliance connected to the same AC line (outlet on the same fuse).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          It is advisable not to use refrigerator, air conditioner, washing machine, vacuum cleaner, microwave oven, ...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          on the same AC line with the computer.



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          That's a very good point. It is not the only cause of AC ripple, but can certainly be a contributing, or only factor.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I know what you mean about being wired to the mouse and keyboard. I have been wireless for years. I have an old basic Logitec wireless keyboard, and a newer Microsoft wireless laser mouse. I think you did a wise thing by testing that other power supply. I actually think you may have fixed it, but we will see. Either way, it will narrow it down a little further.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Steve
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Message 108387 - Posted 6 Dec 2010 12:55:25 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Greetings everyone,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            *** UPDATE ***

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            For a few hours, while watching some TV last night, I didn't see the "jumping" cursor syndrome. I did, however, see a very minor, imperceptible, cursor "creep" syndrome. What I mean by that is this: The cursor was on a space where it was the arrow. It gradually moved down the screen and changed to the vertical "I" beam cursor when it hit some text. It then moved off the text, back onto some blank space and returned to the arrow cursor. This happened over about a 5 hour time period.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            This morning, the cursor was in virtually the same spot I had it in when I crashed out for the night. If it moved, I didn't see any evidence of it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I uninstalled the Logitech software I had installed previously. I shut down the PC and removed the 20th century keyboard and mouse. I installed the receiver for my 21st century keyboard and mouse. I booted the PC, but could not enter my password to finish the boot process. Why? I needed to go through the connection process by pressing the connect button on the receiver and then the mouse and do the same for the keyboard. Voila, the keyboard and mouse were now active. I entered my password and finished the boot process.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I installed the Logitech driver and software, from the downloaded version. I now have the Logitech drivers for the keyboard and mouse and have many more control settings than I had yesterday. Now when I hit the CAPS LOCK key, I see a translucent message flash on my screen informing me of the key press. Woohoo! :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            So, what does this test prove? I haven't a foggy idea what. Besides, I don't know how we got off onto the tangent of my "jumping" cursor issue. That was not the main issue when I started this thread. It just seems to have been a minor contributing factor, sort of. The main issue was that I could no longer run BOINC, in Windoze, without my i7 freaking out after about 6 to 8 hours or so, this after I had re-attached to Einstein. Since I had installed Linux as a dual boot and installed and successfully ran BOINC, to test the i7, proves to me that the PC hardware was not at fault. The freezing mouse and keyboard issue was larger than just when it happened to me, since it happened to many other people that I read about on the Internet when trying to figure that out. I don't plan on dual booting the i7 any more anyway.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The keyboard and mouse do not use shared IRQs and they do not share the same IRQ. To me, it seems only logical and stands to reason that they not use shared IRQs.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            With the previous setup, per BilBg's suggestion, I violently wiggled the KVM cables and mouse and keyboard cables from the receiver to the PC. The cursor did not jump and no back paging on websites occurred. And, I'm still getting the artifact on the cylon splash screen during boot.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Was the problem caused by the KVM and its cables? I don't believe so. Was the problem caused by the 3 year old PSU I had replaced with a newer one? I don't know that. It does seem to be in the realm of possibility. Was the problem caused by Windoze refusal to use the Logitech drivers for the keyboard and mouse? This seems to be a good possibility.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            And, none of this explains why I still get the artifact on the cylon splash screen having nVIDIA drivers installed. Perhaps, after a day or 2 of this current setup, I should uninstall nVIDIA and do a repair install of Windoze, again, then re-install nVIDIA just to see if I still get the artifact with this setup. Yes, I believe that will be a very good test to run.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            @ BilBG: The "cylon" splash screen I mention is, when booting into Windoze, the screen that appears with the Windoze logo and the blue progress bar, before the login screen appears. I don't know that I can do a screen capture of it or not. I know that one can hit the <CTRL> key and "Print Screen" to get a screen capture. It's akin to doing a copy/paste, one needs to start a graphic program, like Paint (which I don't use), and paste the capture onto a canvas. I don't know that that can be done during the boot process. I have never tried it. Perhaps I will...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            There are no major appliances on the same electrical circuit as the PC.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            @ Steve: Thanks! :) At least someone understands my desire to control my PCs wireless-ly. I hate wires and cables. They're always in the way and tend to become unruly.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            On to my "normal" routines while observing the i7's behavior in this "new" setup. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Keep on BOINCing...! :)

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            CMDR Siran d'Vel'nahr XO
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Message 108390 - Posted 6 Dec 2010 13:50:05 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Last modified: 6 Dec 2010 13:50:27 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I still think that hardware was the problem. Linux and Windows can behave differently with an AC ripple. AN AC Ripple can also be caused by a dryed out capacitor, or a partial breakdown of a semi-conductor in addition to equipment on the same circuit as BilBg pointed out. You may not always get the same results given the same hardware. They handle things differently. Try installing BOINC, and doing some crunching with this newer power supply. Also make sure you have plenty of airflow over your motherboard. I am not familiar with Linux, but so many others have had the same software configurations you have without a problem. I don't think there is a mis-match. On the other hand, what anti-virus are you using? I have seen antivirus software, especially Norton/Symantec, cause huge problems with other software and drivers. There are many that work well without interfereing. I use the NOD 32 antivirus from ESET. I have thousands of drivers installed, as I am a LabVIEW programmer, and ESET does not interfere with anything, but gives outstanding protection. Norton crashed my system all the time at boot up, because of driver conflicts. I uninstalled Norton, and the problems went away.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Steve
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Message 108394 - Posted 6 Dec 2010 19:06:29 UTC - in response to Message 108390.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I still think that hardware was the problem. Linux and Windows can behave differently with an AC ripple. AN AC Ripple can also be caused by a dryed out capacitor, or a partial breakdown of a semi-conductor in addition to equipment on the same circuit as BilBg pointed out. You may not always get the same results given the same hardware. They handle things differently. Try installing BOINC, and doing some crunching with this newer power supply. Also make sure you have plenty of airflow over your motherboard. I am not familiar with Linux, but so many others have had the same software configurations you have without a problem. I don't think there is a mis-match. On the other hand, what anti-virus are you using? I have seen antivirus software, especially Norton/Symantec, cause huge problems with other software and drivers. There are many that work well without interfereing. I use the NOD 32 antivirus from ESET. I have thousands of drivers installed, as I am a LabVIEW programmer, and ESET does not interfere with anything, but gives outstanding protection. Norton crashed my system all the time at boot up, because of driver conflicts. I uninstalled Norton, and the problems went away.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Steve

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Greetings Steve,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                My anti-virus is Avira, I believe, if I remember correctly, it was recommended by PC World Magazine. Been reading it for about 15 years. I wouldn't use Norton or Symantec for anything. I have read about the conflicts and such that you mentioned.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                It's funny you should mention it, I was just thinking about installing BOINC just to see what happens. I'll re-attach to Virtual Prairie or MilkyWay or both. I know when the i7 was running Linux, it had no problem with either project, BOINC on Windoze did with VP just as it did with Einstein.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I'll keep everyone posted... :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Keep on BOINCing...! :) (I'm going to attempt to right now...)

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Message 108398 - Posted 6 Dec 2010 23:25:45 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  hey

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  well, i have no more enthusiasm left. i am back to where i started almost 30 days ago. only this time, boinc only ran just over 3 hours before the stuff hit the fan. i get a boat load of 'computation error' error messages. i then shut down boinc and nothing else will run. i get 'application failed to initialize...' error dialogs popping up, and behind them, exception error dialogs no matter what application i try to start. if i shut down firefox, it will no longer start, the error messages show up. i've had it with windows.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  i don't know where i'm going from here, i am at a loss...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  y'all keep on boining...

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  CMDR Siran d'Vel'nahr XO
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Message 108402 - Posted 7 Dec 2010 2:51:09 UTC - in response to Message 108398.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Siran, I too feel you pain, as I am at a loss too. There is something that is being missed, but I don't know what. I will sleep on it, and tomorrow read the whole thread and see if anything jumps out. I am running Windows, on an i7, at high speed, without a problem. I am truly sorry I can't be more help at the moment. I really thought that supply might be the problem. Do you have a Killawatt meter? If so, how much power is the rig using under full crunch?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Steve
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Message 108403 - Posted 7 Dec 2010 4:06:03 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I too should apologize for what is about to happen. Another bored Setizen at heart, I attached to help fill the down time. I will remain with Einstein as backup, but setting resource share to 0.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      The real apology is because, I have ton of CPU units, that will pass their deadline on 12/13. I will continue crunching until they disappear, but it is far more than I can crunch. My cache was set to 1 day,but I have far more than that on hand.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Anyway, sorry about the mess coming in on 12/13!!

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Message 108406 - Posted 7 Dec 2010 11:25:26 UTC - in response to Message 108390.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Last modified: 7 Dec 2010 12:05:05 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ... I use the NOD32 antivirus from ESET. I have thousands of drivers installed, as I am a LabVIEW programmer, and ESET does not interfere with anything, but gives outstanding protection. Norton crashed my system all the time at boot up, because of driver conflicts. I uninstalled Norton, and the problems went away.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Steve


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I also use ESET NOD32 Antivirus (IMHO the best on planet)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        (don't expect Bulgarian (east-European) to pay for software (we have no money even for hardware),
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I use passwords found on the Internet ;) )

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        But the trial version of ESET NOD32 Antivirus is free for 30-day period.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        http://www.eset.com/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        http://www.eset.com/home/nod32-antivirus
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        http://www.eset.com/download/free-trial/international
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        http://www.eset.com/home/compare-eset-to-competition


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ____________


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        - ALF - "Find out what you don't do well ..... then don't do it!" :)

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Message 108407 - Posted 7 Dec 2010 12:19:31 UTC - in response to Message 108403.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I too should apologize for what is about to happen. Another bored Setizen at heart, I attached to help fill the down time. I will remain with Einstein as backup, but setting resource share to 0.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The real apology is because, I have ton of CPU units, that will pass their deadline on 12/13. I will continue crunching until they disappear, but it is far more than I can crunch. My cache was set to 1 day,but I have far more than that on hand.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Anyway, sorry about the mess coming in on 12/13!!


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          If you abort a bunch of them now they will get resent now, instead of waiting until the last minute. Your choice the same thing happens, units just get resent to other pc's for crunching.

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Message 108410 - Posted 7 Dec 2010 12:57:29 UTC - in response to Message 108398.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Last modified: 7 Dec 2010 13:12:26 UTC



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Remove the video card and re-seat it again (to remedy eventual bad contact).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Do you have another add-in card in some slot?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Even if you don't see dust inside the computer it may be good to clean it - there may be some (invisible) conductive particle
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            (carbon - soot, graphite; metal - swarf fallen from the case or heatsink; electrolyte - leak from battery or capacitor)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Use soft, natural (non-synthetic, to not risk static electricity) brush and air.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            If you see electrolyte leak use just cotton swab (on stick) damped with water (and dry the place afterwards)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Check for bulged/leaking electrolyte capacitors.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague


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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            - ALF - "Find out what you don't do well ..... then don't do it!" :)

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Message 108419 - Posted 7 Dec 2010 22:13:33 UTC - in response to Message 108402.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Siran, I too feel you pain, as I am at a loss too. There is something that is being missed, but I don't know what. I will sleep on it, and tomorrow read the whole thread and see if anything jumps out. I am running Windows, on an i7, at high speed, without a problem. I am truly sorry I can't be more help at the moment. I really thought that supply might be the problem. Do you have a Killawatt meter? If so, how much power is the rig using under full crunch?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Steve

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Greetings Steve,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks! I have never run into a problem I could not figure out within a day or 2. This one is almost 30 days old and I have run out of ideas. I'm thinking everyone here has too.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I believe that the only way to truly find out if I have a hardware and/or software problem would be to build a PC identical to this one. Which is something I cannot afford to do.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I figured that doing all the torture tests on the hardware would have eliminated it since everything passed. And doing a clean install of WinXP, including a re-format of the boot drive, would have eliminated the Windoze OS as a problem. I figured that installing Linux as a dual boot and installing BOINC to run on Linux, successfully, would have also pointed to the Windoze OS as being a problem, which prompted my clean install of WinXP. Everything I have done has boiled down to my opinion that nVIDIA is somehow at fault since every time I install it, without it previously installed, will cause the artifact in the cylon boot splash screen to appear.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              But... Then again, the i7, as it was originally configured with the old PSU and old (new when built) nVIDIA card and software, and the KVM switch between it and my Linux PC, ran BOINC, among other things, quite nicely. I had absolutely no problem with the i7 since May this year, when I built it. I could run a graphical 3D chat program while BOINCing and have 3 to 5 other programs running concurrently too. No adverse affects whatsoever. Suddenly, after I finished with the last SETI WUs I was working on, I re-attach to Einstein and BANG! These problems start. I don't seem to have any problem as long as I'm not running BOINC.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I don't have a Killawatt meter. I was looking on the Internet about it. They're not too expensive so I may look into getting one.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks again, Steve. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Keep on BOINCing...! :)

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Message 108448 - Posted 8 Dec 2010 18:27:43 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Greetings,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                *** UPDATE ***

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Well, the i7 is still where it was the other day, less having BOINC installed. Since that test failed miserably, I saw no point in keeping BOINC installed. It's gone. I will try something new later when I can afford to.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                On a lighter note: I'm BOINCing again!!! Well, my Linux PC is anyway. Here's what happened:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I saw that SETI was generating WUs again and tried to figure out how to get my Linux PC crunching again. Well, I only had the one monitor and having the KVM system in place failed, again. And, the KVM will not work for just switching the monitor, keyboard and mouse connections need to be in place on both PCs, so... I decided that I was going to hook the Linux PC up to my TV and get BOINC started.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Ok, I needed another VGA cable. I'll run down and look in the box for my new monitor. I figured I must have used the old one from my old monitor and left the new cable in the box. I saw a video cable and grabbed it. I also decided to grab the old monitor just out of the blue.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Ya see, I got my new Acer monitor when I presumed that the old monitor was dead, no image from the PCs. The Acer solved that problem. I packed up the old monitor and put it down in the basement with all my other various old computer parts and pieces.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Ok, I pulled the video cable from the bag and was surprised to see that it was NOT a VGA cable. It is a DVI video cable. "Oh great!", I thought. Well I do have a DVI to VGA adapter, but... I first looked on the back of the Acer and lo and behold, it not only had a VGA port, but a DVI port as well. Hallelujah! I replaced the VGA cable with the DVI and it works great! :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Ok, now to hook the Linux to the TV. Ahh, but wait. Let me test the old flat screen just for grins. I pulled my tiny little wireless mouse receiver and placed in a USB port on the Linux PC. I then hooked up my wired PS/2 keyboard to the PC. I hooked up the VGA cable and power to the old monitor. Ok, all is now hooked up.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                After one last check, I hit the power switch on the monitor. Hmmm... I got an image, "No signal". Ok, that's a good sign so I hit the power switch on the PC. Hey! Look at that! The BIOS is doing its thing! Linux booted up, I logged in and then started BOINC Manager. The PC connected to SETI. No work sent. Bummer! It connected again. No work sent. Double bummer! It connected again and this time I got a WU! YEAH!!! I am BOINCing again!!! :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I'm not sure how much life is left in that old monitor so I will not keep it on any more than I have to, just long enough to make quick checks of Linux and BOINC and that's it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Now, if only I can get my i7 BOINCing again, I would be one HAPPY CAMPER!!! :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                So, the i7 has a working wireless keyboard and mouse, newer PSU, everything else except the case, 6 months old. Oh wait, the DVD/CD Re-writable is not new. It's maybe 6 years old and still working perfectly. Use it to re-write my backups to DVD every month. And NO BOINC! :( And yet everything else I do on it causes absolutely no problems. I don't even have the "jumping" mouse cursor.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I'm thinking of doing, yet, another clean re-install of WinXP.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                By the way, I have been reading about others having a problem running Einstein too, since SETI has been down. This has me thinking now... What does Einstein do that other projects don't do? I guess I'll find out, or maybe not, if I can get BOINC running on the i7 again. If I can, Einstein will not be a project of choice to run. At least not right away...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Keep on BOINCing...! :) (I am again!!!)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ____________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                CMDR Siran d'Vel'nahr XO
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                USS Vre'kasht NCC-33187

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Message 108449 - Posted 8 Dec 2010 18:53:40 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Very bad, that all working around havn't ended in a solution :-(.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  What BIOS Version have u onboard? Cause in/since version 1002 from 07.06.2010 asus added
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  "P7P55D-E PRO 1002 BIOS
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. Improve memory compatibility
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2. Improve system stability "

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  K, this is a little bit time critical, since your system is half year old.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  If you havn't it already, then this BIOS-update is also worth a try (but then go for the newest 1502).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ____________

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Message 108452 - Posted 8 Dec 2010 22:34:58 UTC - in response to Message 108449.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Very bad, that all working around havn't ended in a solution :-(.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    What BIOS Version have u onboard? Cause in/since version 1002 from 07.06.2010 asus added
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    "P7P55D-E PRO 1002 BIOS
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. Improve memory compatibility
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. Improve system stability "

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    K, this is a little bit time critical, since your system is half year old.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    If you havn't it already, then this BIOS-update is also worth a try (but then go for the newest 1502).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Greetings Highlander,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I just flashed 1502 and so far the only noticeable difference I see is what CPU-Z tells me. LOL ;) I'm sure things are happening "behind the scenes" that are not noticeable.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Thanks! :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Keep on BOINCing...! :)

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    CMDR Siran d'Vel'nahr XO
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    USS Vre'kasht NCC-33187

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Siran's BOINC Web Site [ TEMPORARILY DISABLED ]

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Message 108488 - Posted 10 Dec 2010 22:04:54 UTC - in response to Message 108452.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Siran,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I followed your link in the Seti forum to this thread and spent many hours of "work" time reading it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Let me give you my history with my current computer.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      It's merely an old Pentium 4. I bought it refurbished, with a fresh install of WinXP Pro, mainly for the purpose of running a feed on radiorefernece.com. (Actually, I started out trying to use a different site, for which I installed WinAmp and probably a few other things, but I found out radioreference is much easier. Their recommended software is called scannercast.) Even before I got that up and running, I installed BOINC and let it attach to my 2 projects, Seti and Einstein, which I hadn't done anything for in months. I also installed Firefox and, after everything was working, my BlazeTV USB TV tuner (which is supposed to but won't tune QAM channels off the cable, but that's irrelevant to this discussion). Months later, I installed Google Chrome with no ill effects. At one point or another, I probably installed Adobe reader and Java too.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I made both BOINC and scannercast Scheduled Tasks so Windows would start them at system startup (so they would recover from a power outage without my intervention). (Yes, I have a UPS, but it was only running for 3 minutes, which turned out to be a default setting that could be overridden. My wireless router and DSL modem also run on it. And the scanners for the radio feed.)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      This setup ran merrily for nearly a year, with me occasionally watching a TV show while waiting for the washing machine or dryer to finish. About the only times it ever got restarted were when Windows updates required it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Then, in early November, I got an email notification that my feed was down. I logged on and found the system to be very sluggish. Windows once opened wouldn't close again. I couldn't even do a proper shut down. I had to do a hard reset. It started up again and the feed came back online. Okay, fine. Then it happened again about a day later. I noticed somewhere a message about system resources being low. That's when I decided to shut down BOINC. I may have tried to nurse the current Einstein unit through to the end, or it may have already errored out. I took both BOINC and scannercast out of Scheduled Tasks. I also found Googleupdate in there and removed it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      When I had time, I ran a full virus scan and the various Windows system tools, including defrag (even though it said I didn't need to). Then I let it have another Einstein unit (Seti was down by this point). In a day or less, my feed was down. Again, I had to do a hard reset because of extreme sluggishness. This time, I only started scannercast. I also unplugged the TV tuner. As long as I didn't let it work on Einstein, it was fine.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      At some point, I tripled the RAM (which the system isn't entirely happy about; it's now a half GB SIMM and a 1GB SIMM and the BIOS tells me the mismatch makes it run less efficiently than if it were matched). I let it try another Einstein unit. Crash.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Yesterday, as I was reading this whole thread, one thing jumped out at me. You use Avira Antivirus. That's what came preinstalled on this computer (the computer was intended for low-income students who couldn't afford fancy new ones, so they installed a free antivirus). That seems to be the only thing you and I have in common, other than similar problems running Einstein on Windows XP Pro 32 bit. I do have an unused license for Bitdefender, which I use on my two laptops. Maybe I'll install that on here. (I have decided not to run BOINC on laptops any more. I find it makes them run hot and slow, and they keep doing it even after I quit running BOINC on them. They eventually do it even without BOINC, but it takes a lot longer to get there.)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Last night, I finally started BOINC again and let it get some work from Seti. It's now just over 21 hours since it started crunching. None of the units has been returned yet, but my radio feed is still online.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      See the response I left in the Seti Technical News forum (thread "Up").

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I started typing this four hours ago, for about 20 minutes. I just came back to it half an hour ago. There was probably more I intended to say, but I can't remember what. Maybe I'll think of it later, after I read this back.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      David
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Message 108490 - Posted 11 Dec 2010 7:05:33 UTC - in response to Message 108488.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Update:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        It's now 30 hours since I started crunching Seti. I just returned two units and got another and my radio feed is still online. I'm still thinking that in the morning, I'll try letting it have an Einstein and see if BOINC automatically limiting it to running an hour at a time makes it run successfully.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        David
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Message 108497 - Posted 11 Dec 2010 21:07:33 UTC - in response to Message 108490.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Update:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Since my last update, my computer uploaded 3 more Seti units and downloaded 2 more, including an Astropulse. When I put hands on the machine again, it seemed to still be running just fine, with none of the sluggishness I was getting when running Einstein.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          About 40 minutes ago, I let my computer get a couple of Einstein units, then put it back on no new tasks. I also tweaked my preferences a bit, cutting Einstein down from a resource share of 50 to 10 (Seti is 100) and increasing the setting for "stop if non-BOINC processor usage exceeds" from 20% to 40%. As of now, my radio feed is still online.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          We'll see what happens...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          David
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Message 108498 - Posted 11 Dec 2010 21:53:22 UTC - in response to Message 108488.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Greetings David,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sorry it took so long to get back to you, I've been pretty busy with other things. I did see your reply to me on SETI, but was in the middle of things at the time.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Anyway, yeah, sounds like what I have been going through. And, you mentioned one thing that I forgot to mention that is common to both our problems. I too saw messages that my system resources were dangerously low when the i7 was going through it seizures. When I checked, everything seemed fine. I use a utility called System Explorer which runs rings around Windoze Task Manager. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            As for Avira, I have never had a problem with it, well, those in-your-face ads every time it updated kinda sucked. But other than that, no problem.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            My i7 runs just fine as long as I am not running BOINC. the current uptime is at: 2 days, 23 hours and 58 minutes. 48 hours without a single problem. And I have run up to about 5 or 6 apps at the same time without the i7 batting an eyelash.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The only thing I have done to the i7... Wow! Avira just updated while typing this. ;) Anyway, the only thing I have done recently was update my BIOS 3 or 4 days ago. I am now at version 1502, the most current.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I still get the artifact on the Windoze logo screen with the blue progress bar. The only way I can get rid of it is to re-install WinXP and hope I don't get nVIDIA installed again (Windoze just LOVES to do that on its own). Installing nVIDIA is when the artifact appears. That is what leads me to think that there is something wrong with the video driver(s). I'm probably wrong though. The re-install will have to be a clean install for there to be any hope of not running nVIDIA.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Well, gotta go, the store is beckoning for my appearance. ;)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Keep on BOINCing...! :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ____________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            CMDR Siran d'Vel'nahr XO
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            USS Vre'kasht NCC-33187

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Siran's BOINC Web Site [ TEMPORARILY DISABLED ]

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Message 108512 - Posted 12 Dec 2010 6:06:22 UTC - in response to Message 108498.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Siran,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              My computer's uptime right now is over 8 days. It's now about 54 hours since I started doing Seti and approaching 10 hours since I let it do Einstein along with the Seti. So far, so good.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I don't really see why you think your video artifact is related to your BOINC problem. I had pretty much the same problem as you, but on entirely different hardware (I have no separate GPU) and without the video artifact. I can understand you being annoyed by it, but I think it's an entirely separate issue.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I suggest you start running Seti -- only -- on your i7 and see if it can handle that. I'm not far enough into my Seti-and-Einstein-together experiment to recommend you follow my lead on that, but if I make it to Monday morning without a crash, I will suggest you try it then.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              David
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Patiently waiting for the asteroid with my name on it.

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Message 108527 - Posted 12 Dec 2010 15:29:31 UTC - in response to Message 108512.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Siran,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                My computer's uptime right now is over 8 days. It's now about 54 hours since I started doing Seti and approaching 10 hours since I let it do Einstein along with the Seti. So far, so good.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I don't really see why you think your video artifact is related to your BOINC problem. I had pretty much the same problem as you, but on entirely different hardware (I have no separate GPU) and without the video artifact. I can understand you being annoyed by it, but I think it's an entirely separate issue.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I suggest you start running Seti -- only -- on your i7 and see if it can handle that. I'm not far enough into my Seti-and-Einstein-together experiment to recommend you follow my lead on that, but if I make it to Monday morning without a crash, I will suggest you try it then.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                David

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Greetings David,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Great going on your problem solving and uptime. My i7's uptime got blasted last night, about 12 hours ago. We've been having really high winds and I believe that the wind somehow caused a brownout ultimately shutting down both my i7 and my Linux PCs. I estimate that the i7 was up for about 57 hours before the brownout. That was without BOINC installed and running.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                The artifact I mentioned is not caused by BOINC, it appears when I, or Windoze, installs the nVIDIA graphics driver(s). It's a tiny little approximately 2 by 8 pixel, speck of colored pixels the same colors as the Windoze logo. It appears when, I assume, Windows is doing its hardware checks. If I don't have nVIDIA installed, the artifact does not appear. BOINC has nothing to do with it, especially since I don't have BOINC installed right now.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                The reason I believe that the appearance of the artifact, when booting, has any relation to BOINC is because when the artifact is appearing, when booting, that is when I have a problem with BOINC. When there is no appearance of the artifact, I have no problem running BOINC. That is the only relation with BOINC that the artifact has. As I said, the artifact is not caused by BOINC.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I really wish I could get a screen capture of it so that people will know exactly what I am talking about when I mention the artifact.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I have been thinking of installing BOINC, again, to see how it fares since my update of the BIOS software. Maybe let it get a few SETI WUs and see what happens. The last time I did, I was doing some MilkyWay WUs, for testing, and most of them had computation errors after 3 hours of running. I immediately shut BOINC down and uninstalled it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Without BOINC running, the i7 runs just fine. It's when BOINC is running, whether doing actual work or not, and having nVIDIA installed, that it wreaks havoc with my i7. I firmly believe that if I don't use nVIDIA or I can get it to install without having the artifact appearing, that BOINC and the i7 will do just fine. I installed Linux on the i7 as a dual boot and installed the Linux version of BOINC. It ran without a single problem, even running 2 projects WUs. That alone tells me that there is nothing wrong with the i7. Hmmm... Let me think on this some more...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Gotta get back to my snow shoveling... :(

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Keep on BOINCing...! :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ____________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                CMDR Siran d'Vel'nahr XO
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                USS Vre'kasht NCC-33187

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Message 108535 - Posted 12 Dec 2010 23:31:39 UTC - in response to Message 108527.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ... The artifact I mentioned is not caused by BOINC, it appears when I, or Windoze, installs the nVIDIA graphics driver(s). It's a tiny little approximately 2 by 8 pixel, speck of colored pixels the same colors as the Windoze logo. It appears when, I assume, Windows is doing its hardware checks. If I don't have nVIDIA installed, the artifact does not appear. BOINC has nothing to do with it, especially since I don't have BOINC installed right now.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  The reason I believe that the appearance of the artifact, when booting, has any relation to BOINC is because when the artifact is appearing, when booting, that is when I have a problem with BOINC. When there is no appearance of the artifact, I have no problem running BOINC. That is the only relation with BOINC that the artifact has. As I said, the artifact is not caused by BOINC.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I really wish I could get a screen capture of it so that people will know exactly what I am talking about when I mention the artifact.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I have been thinking of installing BOINC, again, to see how it fares since my update of the BIOS software. Maybe let it get a few SETI WUs and see what happens. The last time I did, I was doing some MilkyWay WUs, for testing, and most of them had computation errors after 3 hours of running. I immediately shut BOINC down and uninstalled it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Without BOINC running, the i7 runs just fine. It's when BOINC is running, whether doing actual work or not, and having nVIDIA installed, that it wreaks havoc with my i7. I firmly believe that if I don't use nVIDIA or I can get it to install without having the artifact appearing, that BOINC and the i7 will do just fine. I installed Linux on the i7 as a dual boot and installed the Linux version of BOINC. It ran without a single problem, even running 2 projects WUs. That alone tells me that there is nothing wrong with the i7. Hmmm... Let me think on this some more...


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Your description looks like graphics memory corruption.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Adding in your surrounding pieces, that could be a Windows driver problem or something that is specific to that hardware and Windows.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  However... Why is that not a problem for everyone else using a similar setup to yours?... What is there that is unique for your one example?...


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Something going wrong during the Windows bootup?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Keep searchin',
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Martin


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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Message 108543 - Posted 13 Dec 2010 12:54:21 UTC - in response to Message 108535.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Greetings Martin,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ... The artifact I mentioned is not caused by BOINC, it appears when I, or Windoze, installs the nVIDIA graphics driver(s). It's a tiny little approximately 2 by 8 pixel, speck of colored pixels the same colors as the Windoze logo. It appears when, I assume, Windows is doing its hardware checks. If I don't have nVIDIA installed, the artifact does not appear. BOINC has nothing to do with it, especially since I don't have BOINC installed right now.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    The reason I believe that the appearance of the artifact, when booting, has any relation to BOINC is because when the artifact is appearing, when booting, that is when I have a problem with BOINC. When there is no appearance of the artifact, I have no problem running BOINC. That is the only relation with BOINC that the artifact has. As I said, the artifact is not caused by BOINC.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I really wish I could get a screen capture of it so that people will know exactly what I am talking about when I mention the artifact.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I have been thinking of installing BOINC, again, to see how it fares since my update of the BIOS software. Maybe let it get a few SETI WUs and see what happens. The last time I did, I was doing some MilkyWay WUs, for testing, and most of them had computation errors after 3 hours of running. I immediately shut BOINC down and uninstalled it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Without BOINC running, the i7 runs just fine. It's when BOINC is running, whether doing actual work or not, and having nVIDIA installed, that it wreaks havoc with my i7. I firmly believe that if I don't use nVIDIA or I can get it to install without having the artifact appearing, that BOINC and the i7 will do just fine. I installed Linux on the i7 as a dual boot and installed the Linux version of BOINC. It ran without a single problem, even running 2 projects WUs. That alone tells me that there is nothing wrong with the i7. Hmmm... Let me think on this some more...


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Your description looks like graphics memory corruption.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    After the problem started, when I attached to Einstein, the artifact would show up from then on during boot and at that time I was running a 6 month old Evga nVIDIA card. Ok, like you, I thought it was a problem with the card, so I replaced it with a brand new Galaxy nVIDIA card. Same thing, even after several repair installs and a clean install of WinXP.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    So, unless there is an identical problem with these 2 cards of different manufacture and I believe technology, I seem to remember a reference to the new card built on Fermi technology, I believe it highly unlikely that it is a video hardware problem. FurMark reported no problem with the new card after it torture tested the card.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Adding in your surrounding pieces, that could be a Windows driver problem or something that is specific to that hardware and Windows.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    As I have stated many times, the only time the artifact appears is when I have nVIDIA installed. When I did the clean install of WinXP, I assume a generic Micro$oft video driver was being used. Until I installed the nVIDIA driver, the artifact never once appeared during any boot cycle. Once the nVIDIA driver was installed, BAM! The artifact appeared. And when it makes its appearance, something screws with BOINC.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    However... Why is that not a problem for everyone else using a similar setup to yours?... What is there that is unique for your one example?...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    A 6 year old DVD/CD re-writable drive, that works perfectly? A 6 year old, or so, iOmega Zip drive that I don't have powered or a data cable hooked to? The fact that this MoBo does not come with a floppy drive port? Had to get a USB floppy drive, which I never use, by the way. Floppies are so, 20th century. ;)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Something going wrong during the Windows bootup?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Keep searchin',
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Martin

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Although I haven't looked at it lately, I would look at the event log to see if a clue could be found there. Nothing shows up in the log without the artifact appearance or with it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I had nVIDIA installed, when running with the 6 month old card, for, well, 6 months and had no problem at all. BOINC did its thing just fine. As soon as I attached to Einstein, BAM! I now cannot run BOINC when nVIDIA is installed. Well, I can, it's just that running them both screws with the i7 somehow, or perhaps Windoze. I have no clue anymore.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    As I stated some time ago, here in this thread, the only other test I can think of to do, which may bring a definitive solution, would be to abandon the nVIDIA technology and switch to ATI. But, that will have to wait until I get my tax return or get back to work in about 4 more weeks.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Thanks Martin! :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Keep on BOINCing...! :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ____________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    CMDR Siran d'Vel'nahr XO
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    USS Vre'kasht NCC-33187

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Message 108563 - Posted 14 Dec 2010 14:22:26 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Last modified: 14 Dec 2010 14:29:47 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Update:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I last rebooted my computer about 5pm on 3 December (that only because at the previous reboot the network adapter failed to initialize). I allowed it to get Seti tasks somewhere around 6pm on 9 Dec. And I allowed it to get Einstein tasks about 2:20pm on 11 Dec. So far, nothing has crashed or frozen. My radio feed is still online. Next, I plan to gradually increase Einstein's resource share back to what it was before, 50. If it keeps working that way, then one of two things fixed it: either increasing the preference setting for "stop work when non-BOINC CPU usage reaches" from 20% to 40%; or I'm right about Seti "regulating" Einstein, perhaps in that the regular switching back and forth between projects causes the Einstein problem to reset every time it stops running to allow Seti to run.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I definitely think you should proceed with your plan to let your i7 do some Seti work. Set your cache very small first so it only downloads a small amount of work it in case it doesn't work. (Of course, Seti's splitters ran out of data to split overnight, and today they'll be going into their regular weekly outage...) If it does work for 2-3 days, then cautiously let it have a bit of Einstein.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Now if only I can remember where that resource share setting is...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      David
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Message 108577 - Posted 15 Dec 2010 13:09:32 UTC - in response to Message 108563.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Update:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Now if only I can remember where that resource share setting is...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        David


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        It is on the website under Your Account and then:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Preferences for this project Einstein@Home preferences

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Message 108578 - Posted 15 Dec 2010 14:41:30 UTC - in response to Message 108577.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Update:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Now if only I can remember where that resource share setting is...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          David


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          It is on the website under Your Account and then:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Preferences for this project Einstein@Home preferences

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Yeah, I found it. But now Seti's out of work again and I'm not going to take Einstein off NNT again until there is a steady supply of Seti so it can keep switching between them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          David
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Message 108598 - Posted 16 Dec 2010 14:34:46 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Greetings everyone,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            *** UPDATE ***

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Before doing last night's 13 Micro$oft updates, which of course required a re-boot, the i7 ran for 3 days 21 hours without a single problem. This was without BOINC installed and running.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            One thing I did notice, and Googled about, was that my Vcore voltage was averaging 0.88 volts. I saw somewhere, on the Internet, where the Vcore voltage parameters are between 0.8x and 1.xx volts. Ok, so the i7 is at the minimum Vcore voltage. Cool.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I decided to install BOINC and attach to SETI. I dropped the CPU core usage back to 50% (4 cores 12.5% usage each) and it is currently running. After the downloads were complete, I set SETI to NNT. BOINC has been running roughly 2 hours now. It completed 4 WUs and is currently trying to upload the fourth. The other 3 have not been reported yet either. I believe the connection to SETI may be down... Well, I just looked and the fourth WU has uploaded. And, all 4 are now reported. Well see how well this is going to work. Vcore voltage is now at 1.12v

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The i7 BOINCs much, much faster than the Core 2 Duo does. But then, I would guess that's to be expected, huh? ;)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I have made no further changes to the i7 since I updated the BIOS about a week ago or so. I still get the artifact when the i7 boots. The reason I installed BOINC and went with SETI is that I had no problems running SETI before all this started. I'm thinking that if all goes well running SETI, I will NOT be running Einstein. Ahh, but then, in my previous tests running VP and MW I had the problem. So... I guess we'll see. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            That's it for now. I'll report back in a few hours with any further developments. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Keep on BOINCing...! :)

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Message 108609 - Posted 16 Dec 2010 21:36:31 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Greetings everyone,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              *** UPDATE ***

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Just under 10 hours and I had 18 SETI WUs completed and reported. No adverse affects noticed. I will now get some more WUs and continue this test. Update to follow, when done with the next batch...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Keep on BOINCing...! :)

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Message 108625 - Posted 17 Dec 2010 2:32:25 UTC - in response to Message 108609.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Just under 10 hours and I had 18 SETI WUs completed and reported. No adverse affects noticed. I will now get some more WUs and continue this test. Update to follow, when done with the next batch...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Good luck.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                After good confidence with the s@h WUs...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Just for a giggle, try a few e@h WUs to see what happens?...


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Happy crunchin',
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Martin


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ps: Hope you're going to write an executive summary after this little epic!

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Message 108631 - Posted 17 Dec 2010 11:10:42 UTC - in response to Message 108625.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Greetings Martin,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Just under 10 hours and I had 18 SETI WUs completed and reported. No adverse affects noticed. I will now get some more WUs and continue this test. Update to follow, when done with the next batch...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Good luck.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  After good confidence with the s@h WUs...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Just for a giggle, try a few e@h WUs to see what happens?...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I really do not feel comfortable in going down that road again! That is what I did when this all got started. It's been over 5 weeks of trying to figure this out. Except for the BIOS update and having the i7 and Core 2 Duo PCs running without the KVM switch, the i7 is where it was at when I had all those WUs error out for MW.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Happy crunchin',
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Martin


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ps: Hope you're going to write an executive summary after this little epic!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Well, although I am successfully crunching SETI, I don't believe that whatever the problem was is completely gone. After all, I still have that artifact on the cylon boot splash screen. I'll just bide my time until I can get Win7 Pro 64 bit next year. Then I'll see what happens. Maybe then I'll write that summery. ;)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  *** UPDATE ***

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I received 19 WUs last night and closed the gate again. This morning, 12 were done with 8 needing to be reported. So far, all is going well BOINCing on the i7 again, with SETI only. After this batch is complete, I will open the WU gate and leave it open to see what happens when the cache level is maintained.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I'm still only running BOINC on 4 cores. I'll jack that up to 6 after about another day of successful crunching.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Keep on BOINCing...! :) (the i7 is again!)
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Message 108638 - Posted 17 Dec 2010 14:01:59 UTC - in response to Message 108631.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I'll just bide my time until I can get Win7 Pro 64 bit next year.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    You can have "64-bit Pro" right now with a choice of any of many desktops and thousands of applications... It's just that it isn't called Microsoft. If you're using Thunderbird and Firefox for email and web browsing, then you don't even change applications...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ;-)


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Then I'll see what happens. Maybe then I'll write that summery. ;)


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Mmmmm... I suspect by that time all will be forgotten and you'll be drooling over the pretty pictures on the retail pack of whatever DVD...?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Computers should just simply work. If your i7 + Windows fails for e@h and/or mw, then something needs debugging and fixing... All still rather curious, especially for your 'cylon' feature during booting up the Windows.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Quite an adventure!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Good luck,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    and happy crunchin',
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Martin

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Message 108641 - Posted 17 Dec 2010 16:24:18 UTC - in response to Message 108631.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Greetings Martin,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Just under 10 hours and I had 18 SETI WUs completed and reported. No adverse affects noticed. I will now get some more WUs and continue this test. Update to follow, when done with the next batch...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Good luck.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      After good confidence with the s@h WUs...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Just for a giggle, try a few e@h WUs to see what happens?...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I really do not feel comfortable in going down that road again! That is what I did when this all got started. It's been over 5 weeks of trying to figure this out. Except for the BIOS update and having the i7 and Core 2 Duo PCs running without the KVM switch, the i7 is where it was at when I had all those WUs error out for MW.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Keep on BOINCing...! :) (the i7 is again!)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Based on my (limited, before Seti ran out of work, which has now been rectified) experience running S@h and E@h together, back and forth, I think you should try it. Maybe set your preferences to limit the number of cores Einstein can use. Pick a time (this weekend?) when you can be there to intervene if you do crash again. Now that Seti's work supply seems to be steady, I'm going to take my Einstein off of NNT the next time I have to go to the basement for some other reason.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      David
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Message 108650 - Posted 17 Dec 2010 21:52:40 UTC - in response to Message 108638.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I'll just bide my time until I can get Win7 Pro 64 bit next year.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        You can have "64-bit Pro" right now with a choice of any of many desktops and thousands of applications... It's just that it isn't called Microsoft. If you're using Thunderbird and Firefox for email and web browsing, then you don't even change applications...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ;-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I'm already running a 64 bit OS, on the Core 2 Duo, that did not come from Micro$oft. I keep saying that I run stuff that I have to have Windoze for. And, I don't want to dual boot the i7.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Then I'll see what happens. Maybe then I'll write that summery. ;)


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Mmmmm... I suspect by that time all will be forgotten and you'll be drooling over the pretty pictures on the retail pack of whatever DVD...?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Computers should just simply work. If your i7 + Windows fails for e@h and/or mw, then something needs debugging and fixing... All still rather curious, especially for your 'cylon' feature during booting up the Windows.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Quite an adventure!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Good luck,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        and happy crunchin',
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Martin


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        *** UPDATE ***

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Well, it's been just over 24 hours since my last re-boot. BOINC has been busy all that time crunching SETI WUs. I am still not seeing any adverse affects of running BOINC. None of the WUs are getting reported with errors. My temps and voltages are all within established parameters.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        As for Einstein, to be honest, I would rather be crunching Orbit, but they never have any WUs. And I'm still a bit gun shy when it comes to Einstein. Maybe next year when I do some upgrading.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        The one thing I don't miss: the jumping cursor and automatically going back a page or 2, when on a website, without clicking the back button. There's some more good that came out of this... :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Keep on BOINCing...! :)

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Message 108658 - Posted 18 Dec 2010 2:42:00 UTC - in response to Message 108650.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          You could load VirtualBox on your Linux host and install Windows as a guest OS. I am running SolarisExpress as guest on my Linux host.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Tullio
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Message 108798 - Posted 20 Dec 2010 22:00:08 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Greetings,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            *** SEMI-FINAL UPDATE ***

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Well, the i7 has been running, with BOINC continuously running, for 54 hours and counting. I have been doing many other tasks as well. I've been doing some major FTP-ing to my web space. I've even been running a highly graphical VR chat program. All, with no apparent adverse affects.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            So, unless something really major happens, I more than likely won't post another update until I do some upgrading next year. So, if all goes well, I'd like to wish everyone a very Merry Christmas and Happy and prosperous New Year and I'll see you next year. I would also like to thank everyone for the help and many suggestions. And no, I will not attached the i7 to Einstein, not until the upgrade next year. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Keep on BOINCing...! :)

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Message 108823 - Posted 21 Dec 2010 12:31:35 UTC - in response to Message 108798.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Greetings,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              *** SEMI-FINAL UPDATE ***

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Well, the i7 has been running, with BOINC continuously running, for 54 hours and counting. I have been doing many other tasks as well. I've been doing some major FTP-ing to my web space. I've even been running a highly graphical VR chat program. All, with no apparent adverse affects.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              So, unless something really major happens, I more than likely won't post another update until I do some upgrading next year. So, if all goes well, I'd like to wish everyone a very Merry Christmas and Happy and prosperous New Year and I'll see you next year. I would also like to thank everyone for the help and many suggestions. And no, I will not attached the i7 to Einstein, not until the upgrade next year. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Keep on BOINCing...! :)


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              It is okay as far as you not crunching for Einstein, the rest of us can pick up the slack! The key is too find a way to crunch and you have done that, CONGRATULATIONS!! I too hope everyone has a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year even if it is not celebrated as a Holiday in your little corner of the World!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              N9JFE David S
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Message 108860 - Posted 22 Dec 2010 16:18:28 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Let me give an update too.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Last Saturday evening, I installed last week's round of Windows updates and did the required restart. (This is the only interruption to my continuous uptime since I last mantioned it.) Then I opened the BOINC manager and clicked update for Seti, since it had not contacted that project since I increased my cache size to 6 days. Immediately, it went out and got 7 new WUs from Einstein and started working on 2 of them, ignoring the 1 it already had. It never even asked Seti for more work.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I haven't been back down there to check the manager again, but I see on my account page this morning that 3 of the new Einstein WUs have now been returned (but the 1 that's a day older still hasn't). No new ones have been downloaded, so maybe it's now trying to get more work from Seti and can't because Seti is down again. Likewise, I don't know if it ever finished the Astropulse that was at over 98% complete and can't upload it right now.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                My point is, my computer has been crunching pretty heavily, maybe exclusively, on Einstein for 3-1/2 days now and hasn't crashed again. So either my crashes were caused by a bad batch of Einstein WUs, changing the CPU usage cutoff from 20% to 40% did the trick, or just having the Seti/AP work sitting there is keeping Einstein under control. Or maybe it is doing a little AP work once in a while and that's keeping Einstein from crashing it. I'll have to go to the basement tomorrow night (laundry), so I'll check then.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                David
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Message 108867 - Posted 22 Dec 2010 18:35:59 UTC - in response to Message 108860.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Greetings all,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  N9JFE,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Yes, SETI is down. However, It is a "controlled outage" and is in the middle of three days worth of down time.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I was just on their site and it is being hoped, that it all should be up & running tomorrow or tomorrow night again.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ____________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Wishing you continuing scientific "fun" and, at least, always valid results,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Laters,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Rick "WHOSIT" W.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  mikey
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Message 108872 - Posted 23 Dec 2010 11:43:19 UTC - in response to Message 108867.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Greetings all,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    N9JFE,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Yes, SETI is down. However, It is a "controlled outage" and is in the middle of three days worth of down time.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I was just on their site and it is being hoped, that it all should be up & running tomorrow or tomorrow night again.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    For the first and biggest of the Boinc Projects it sure is down alot lately!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Profile tullio
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Message 108881 - Posted 23 Dec 2010 15:19:07 UTC - in response to Message 108872.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Greetings all,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      N9JFE,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Yes, SETI is down. However, It is a "controlled outage" and is in the middle of three days worth of down time.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I was just on their site and it is being hoped, that it all should be up & running tomorrow or tomorrow night again.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      For the first and biggest of the Boinc Projects it sure is down alot lately!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I am running an Astropulse WU on my Linux box and a SETI unit on my Solaris guest OS. The SETI admins are to be admired for what they do on donated hardware.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Tullio
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Profile Siran d'Vel'nahr
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Message 108889 - Posted 23 Dec 2010 19:04:15 UTC - in response to Message 108872.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Greetings all,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        N9JFE,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Yes, SETI is down. However, It is a "controlled outage" and is in the middle of three days worth of down time.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I was just on their site and it is being hoped, that it all should be up & running tomorrow or tomorrow night again.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        For the first and biggest of the Boinc Projects it sure is down alot lately!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Greetings Mikey,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        It hasn't been down since some time yesterday. They were doing a re-striping of the RAID, on Oscar if I remember correctly. It has finished. Most of the servers on the status page are green too.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I have left the gate open and am maintaining a 3 or 4 day cache of WUs (don't remember which, off hand). I'm on day 5 and a 1/2 on my i7's uptime. Woohoo! :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        TO: Everyone
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Have a great Holiday Season! :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Keep on BOINCing...! :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ____________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        CMDR Siran d'Vel'nahr XO
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        USS Vre'kasht NCC-33187

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Siran's BOINC Web Site [ TEMPORARILY DISABLED ]

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ML1
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Message 109314 - Posted 8 Jan 2011 19:08:22 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Last modified: 8 Jan 2011 19:08:42 UTC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Might this be the problem behind your jumping mouse when squished through your KVM box?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          (From elsewhere on the web)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          IS there a place to set the input buffer length [in Linux] for the mouse? Apparently this cures it in Windows 7 and Vista - where changing from input buffer length of <100 to 200-ish fixes it..



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ... Is the KVM using a restrictive buffer size for the PS2 which then chops up or loses data?...


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          What's the latest for your adventures?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Hope you had a good break,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Happy New Year!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Martin
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Profile Siran d'Vel'nahr
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Message 109366 - Posted 9 Jan 2011 21:25:11 UTC - in response to Message 109314.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Might this be the problem behind your jumping mouse when squished through your KVM box?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            (From elsewhere on the web)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            IS there a place to set the input buffer length [in Linux] for the mouse? Apparently this cures it in Windows 7 and Vista - where changing from input buffer length of <100 to 200-ish fixes it..



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ... Is the KVM using a restrictive buffer size for the PS2 which then chops up or loses data?...


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            What's the latest for your adventures?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Hope you had a good break,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Happy New Year!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Martin

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Greetings Martin,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ... and Happy New Year! :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I no longer have the jumping cursor problem, nor the jumping back a page or 2 on any website, automatically. I'm not sure what I did that eliminated that problem, but I won't look a gift horse in the mouth. ;) I eliminated the use of the KVM. I have a separate keyboard, mouse and monitor for each PC. The monitor for the Linux PC sits on top of my i7 case. :) I'll look into the mouse input buffer thingy. ;)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The i7 has been running quite well, despite the fact that I still get that artifact when booting. I'm still running SETI. I got my RAC up from just over 300 to over 3.3K. I started running on 6 cores about a week ago. I'll go to all 8 in another week or so.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I'm still planning on upgrading Windoze to Win7 Pro 64 bit. I'm also going to switch to an ATI video card.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            My longest uptime, I believe, was 13 days. We had a couple power outages and I had several Windows updates requiring re-boot. I also switched my anti-virus from AntiVir to Avast (ye mateys!). It, too, required a re-boot, obviously. ;)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            That's about it for now. I'll let you know how the upgrades go and whether I'll go with Einstein again or not. I'm still leery about that...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Keep on BOINCing...! :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ____________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            CMDR Siran d'Vel'nahr XO
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            This material is based upon work supported by the National Science Foundation (NSF) under Grants PHY-1104902, PHY-1104617 and PHY-1105572 and by the Max Planck Gesellschaft (MPG). Any opinions, findings, and conclusions or recommendations expressed in this material are those of the investigators and do not necessarily reflect the views of the NSF or the MPG.

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